Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus_nz
I'm going to call you on this one.
There seems to be an accepted idea that NZST is 'too expensive'.
Compared to what?
Perhaps someone who knows can enlighten me.
How is this category more expensive than the 'old' NZV8?
I realise that there were 'field-fillers' in the old class who were spending far less than the front runners but it needs to be pointed out that they were underspending and therefore never going to be competitive. Therefore the comparison is useless. There were also field fillers with money but no real ability.
In a category where qualifying times have only a few tenths separating them, everything has to be spot on.
Is the cost thing an 'apples and oranges' measure? See comment above.
Engine -What is the mileage between rebuilds for the current engine? An what approximately is a rebuild worth? The labour for a complete rebuild including blue printing the Ls7 engine is a fixed price of $3,400 plus GST, at Edgell Performance Engines, who have rebuilt over 50% of the current V8ST field, Parts cost's for a current spec engine should be limited to ring's and bearing's and any other worn parts.
The old engines wouldn't run a full season and were 20k plus for a build I'm told. Yes you could pay that, but my NZV8 engines were usually about $14K because you had to replace so many valve train parts because they ran solid lifters, and the piston's were very expensive parts back then, but not so now day's.[/COLOR]
Furthermore, I'm not aware of debate about engines being 'different'. You are 100% right, only the knockers, prattle on about this non issue
G/Box - Plenty has been said about the gearbox but my recollection of the old g/box is that they needed a tickle up every couple of meetings. The NZV8 front runners rebuilt their gearboxes after every race meeting, because you had to use 1st gear so often in those 4 speed gearbox's and that really hammered the gearbox's. The ST gearboxes, have been significantly upgrades over the first two years, however also need regular maintenance, largely because of the high torque load, and flat-shift shock. Both of these issues are being addressed and the life of the gearbox components is now comparable to the Australian supercars former Hollinger gearboxes.
Diff - no better, no worse? Significantly better and lower cost to maintain as its a proper 9" differential and purpose built casing.
Brakes - I would have thought that these were significantly cheaper. The front running cars in the old category used to throw brake parts at the car. Again Significantly better in every cost respect, however because of the extra bite you get with any new pad and rotor some well funded teams are using brand new parts simply because they can, and as you yourself mention the times are so close 1/10 of a second can mean the difference between being on the front row or three row's back!
Tyre's - Aren't these cheaper? And more importantly the performance over life is more consistent making any running more meaningful. They were cheaper but ST increased the price last year to increase their revenue stream,
Development - No can do. Correct nothing is allowed by an individual team, were as in NZV9's it was constant development.
Accident damage - this I can see is an area where cost could be reduced.
Is there a more cost effective alternative to the OEM lights, mirrors, doors etc? The exhaust seems to suffer as well as tear a bit of gear up. We had the same issues in NZV8's
Certainly the upgrade necessary in the first 18 months added to the cost but I would have thought that was to be expected with a new car. Correct.
The thing that seems to contribute most to the drive-train cost/maintenance is the way the engine delivers its power. It would make sense to try to soften this somehow. Correct much better than what it was but still needs R&D.
All the other costs; travel, accommodation, food, pit gear, rental cars etc are the same no matter what class you run - unless you bring everyman and his cousin with you (as some seem to love to do)
Sometimes I think that the problem with equivalent equipment is that there is nowhere to hide. In the old days the field fillers could build their excuses in before they even left home. Correct, and that is exactly why certain race drivers, will never sit their bums in a V8ST.
Given the pallorous state of our feeder classes for the last 5 plus years is it any wonder there are very very few young New Zealanders wanting to have a go. Particularly when there are any number of far less competitive classes to make themselves look good in.
Anyway - if someone who knows can be bothered to comment on the relative costs I'd appreciate that
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More than happy to dot the i's and cross the t's for you with regards to cost's, I also hope that somebody like Foggy who I know keeps a watching brief on this forum chips in with his own first hand knowledge of the actual cost, and there is not many running at the front of V8ST that can do it as cheaply as Angus, A/does most of the work himself, quite happy to use others cast off's if they pass his 'eyechrometer', B/ uses 'weekend warrior's'
s very effectively, C/ looks after his sponsors.
So come on Angus please contribute 5 minutes of your time lad!
I will attempt to answer and maybe expand a little on you bullet points in red within your own post.
I would also like to say what another constructive and insightful post, Icarus, and so right about the field fillers, and their ready made excuses before they left home!
There are former NZV8 field fillers, who never won a race not because they did not have money but because they did not have the ability and they knew full well by moving into V8ST [were there is no place to hide and no excuses possible' they would be 'exposed' like Hans Christian Anderson fabled Emperor who wore the finest Robes in the land in his eyes, but to his mere mortal subject was completely naked!