[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Again, is it that much of a problem? I don't think it is. Especially with respect to how much time is either spent behind a safety car or races not happening due to extreme weather. See my comments at the end about actual data.

That is a fair comment. But F1 as some type of technological showcase (with a few exceptions such as the current power units) long ago stopped being particularly innovative due to the rules continuing to box them in. Next year will be even more so. Regardless, nobody is ready to open up wheel regulations for "competitive" or "technology demonstration" reasons. At best you might find interest in more than a single tire provider, but with standard wheel sizes (see comments below about tire manufactures likely wanting to gravitate toward larger diameter wheels). As cool as it might be, nobody is looking to replicate something like Tyrrell small diameter wheels in which each team might have their own bespoke tire? If we want to lower unsprung weight, might we just move brakes back inboard, etc. Nobody really wants to do these things because the ability to gain over a rival is small and temporary.

And sadly, F1 is loosing it's lightweight spirit because of it.

While visual difference between F1 and pretty much most everything else was a factor, I believe your second point is the primary reason. Tire manufactures didn't want to continue to invest in technology that pretty much supports only F1. Other top level series are going in the same direction. Why not build data on wheels that are 18" and with a specific diameter and be able to apply that to multiple series?

The requirements endurance racing puts on tyres are completely different than what F1 wants from it's tyre supplier. Any data or synergy between the two would be so basic it could also come from a different diameter tyre with the same sidewall height and basic construction.

Regarding aero issues. That is a red-herring. Overall diameter is generally the same.

Not true, see below.

If they are concerned about the delta with respect to aero by the wheels themselves then they can aero covers if they want. Which I believe is exactly what F1 is doing for 2022.

Yes, yet more parts to correct the problem.

There are pros and cons to both 13" vs 18" wheels. The smaller 13" have lost that battle.

It's not simply a case of the old 13'' vs the new 18''. One of the main benefits of the new wheels is the lower tyre wall. The idea being that lower tyre walls provide more stable aerodynamics. This in turn should help the smaller teams who don't have the resources of the bigger ones to also simulate and design for every aero changes due to tyre side wall movement. This should help with getting the field more equal.

So that an absolutely fine goal. I'm not arguing to stick with the 13'' wheels and balloon tyres. I'm arguing, keep the benefits of the lower side wall, but put it on a smaller 16'' wheel.

Had they done that the tyre diameter would've only grown 10mm instead of the 60mm it has grown now. You would've had all the benefits of the lower side wall, but without the drawbacks of adding so much weight, drag and dirty air by going to the 18'' wheel.

Generally this is a topic that is unrelated to wheel and tire sizes. Yes, the new combo is slightly heavier. But the teams generally have a strategy that if there is something new, instead of working to adjust to a new minimum weight, they rather push for the minimum weight to be increased. The teams want the cars to be as heavy as they are.

And that's exactly what I'm speaking up against. All this political concorary and self interest has lead to cars now being 800kg soon. Again F1 has slowly lost it's lightweight spirit.

Yes, I was overly broad when I said "nobody" is talking about this. I expect there is a very, very small group who is pushing for this. You included. But when looking at the big picture. The advocates for smaller width tires (especially to try to increase the amount of time spent running in wet weather) is effectively zero. Does it make you wrong? Not up to me. IMHO, it does question the validity of the size of the problem and solution you propose.

Apologies for my bluntness, and I really don't mean to offend, but IMHO, this proposal is very Don Quixote-esque.

Well, you could've said the same in 2016 when I was saying that going high downforce for 2017 (probably to please Red Bull, in their fight against Mercedes) was a going to be a very bad idea and they should have stuck with the ground aero concept that was previously floated around. Now we've had 5 year of cars being very bad at following each other before doing in 2022, what should've been done in 2017 straight away.

Endless round behind the safetycar? Can we move beyond the hyperbole? To be fair, you called me out for making small numbers zero. But don't make small numbers huge or infinite!

Can you provide some data? Look back over a few decades and total up the number of races cancelled due to extreme wet weather. And what is the number of wet laps run under safety car vs. green flag, but wet conditions? I don't have the numbers. My gut tells me that cancelled races and ratio of safety vs. green laps (in wet) is extremely low.

I am not trying to make this argument FOR this. If I was, I would show the data. Show the benefit (especially with respect to what you think it will do with regards to wet weather outcomes) I think it's up to you to make the case and that should include actual data. Show me where you are right and I am wrong with data. Even then. Lets look at the recent spa race. How much of a change would have to have been made to the tires and cars to really keep the spray down enough to allow racing? I suspect it would have taken drastic changes (so drastic as to gather no real support) to the tires and cars to make that happen. It will always eventually rain so hard that whatever solution you bring is not enough.

Richard

This is not meant as a cop out, but I just don't have time to gather the data. The fastest way would be to track back all wet races of the last few years and turf what percentage of them was held up rounds behind the safety car, had the race postponed or paused. That would probably be the quickest way to do it, but I simple don't have the time.