[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The idea that all technology deskills is an idea that only works if you ignore the skills required to use new technology. The ability to actually use a computer is far more relevant than hand writing in today's world. This is not deskilling but rather a a transfer of skills to a more relevant area. This is why the idea that modern drivers are less skilled because they do not double d clutch is nonsense. Today's drivers are more skilled at dealing with the over congestion and information overload than older generations.

Thank you for providing links and then posting the information in the thread. Unfortunately there appears to be a bit of a breakdown of understanding on what we're discussing. You appear to be taking my posts as talking about the youngest possible generation of drivers, hence the mentioning of 17 year olds (you'll notice I haven't mentioned age brackets and certainly nothing that young). The original discussion was not about teenagers who have just passed their test, but the difference between the people who passed tests decades and decades ago, and the drivers of today. The 50s and 60s were even mentioned and some wildly inaccurate claims of the test being the same as 50 years ago were banded about.

You won't find me arguing that 17 year olds are better drivers than 50 year olds. I don't think anyone would (or has) made that claim. But I will dispute that a 25 year old is fundamentally a worse driver because he doesn't know how to use an outdated clutch system, despite passing a more stringent test in a more stressful environment. [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/MICHAE~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

Q E D T P and any other letters you'd like. [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/MICHAE~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

On the rest of your examples, I don't really agree. The example of not being able to fly a plane without a computer is a particularly bad one since it's all electronic and doesn't physically work without it. So if the onboard computer goes down, then the best pilot in the world isn't flying your plane. And kids using calculators is a good thing since the maths and especially science they are doing has advanced a lot since we were in school. I also don't agree these examples are relevant to the example of cars and clutches and only serve to driver is further off topic. [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/MICHAE~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

Edit: just a note that I think the assumption about ages is most likely being tied to an assumption on my age. I am not a teenage driver (I wish). I'm not even a 20s driver. I'm well into my 30s. Whilst I would never say I am old and certainly not as experienced on the road as someone in their 60s. So I am not defending younger generations out of pride of my age, because that isn't my generation!

This was your opening statement: post#20

I completely disagree with the idea that a modern vehicle is "de-skilling" current drivers. Given that decades ago, a driving test involved driving up and down a runway and knowing the basic controls, and todays test is FAR more comprehensive, I don't think that's fair.

You then stated:

So I do not agree with the suggestion that we're deskilling drivers. The statistics show the opposite

Continually, you assert, driving standards are far better, thanks to the higher standards of current tests.


Therefore if the foregoing is correct, then how come:


“Some 31,668 males – just over one-third of the total number of people disqualified from driving during this period – were between the ages of 20 and 30.
Males also outnumber females considerably when it comes to carrying out offences leading to a driving ban. In total 13,481 females were disqualified during this time period – less than 15 per cent of the overall total.
And in the 20-30 age group just 4,333 females were disqualified in the 12 month period, compared to 31,668 males.”


As I stated previously, the date of introduction of your whizzy new tests means the age groups who supposedly passed lie between 31 to 37 years old. As age increases, the numbers disqualified rapidly reduces. This data is all in the earlier references I cited.


Now this was amusing!


[quote On the rest of your examples, I don't really agree. The example of not being able to fly a plane without a computer is a particularly bad one since it's all electronic and doesn't physically work without it. So if the onboard computer goes down, then the best pilot in the world isn't flying your plane. [/quote]


You cannot really believe all airplanes now fly themselves, surely?
They can take off, land and make certain autonomous decisions (operating height, speed, heading) mainly on optimal fuel consumption grounds.
If the computer and back-up go down, however, then the pilots take over.
However, the more automatic the process becomes, then obviously, pilots are gradually de-skilled, since such skills are developed over time and honed each and every time they fly.

And kids using calculators is a good thing since the maths and especially science they are doing has advanced a lot since we were in school.

Except in order in order to program a calculator, the user needs a degree of basic maths skills. Even quite simple calculations require basic knowledge.


For example, on a simple calculator, compute the following:


1. In 2014 my company turned over £2,000,000. In 2015, my company turned over only £ 1,500,000. What is the percentage droop between 2014 and 2015? (i.e. how much less is the 2015 turnover expressed in percentage terms of reference).


2. I need to work out my VAT account. Invoices showing the total inclusive of VAT need (i) The actual sales price less VAT; and, (ii) The VAT.
VAT is 20%. Remember, usefully, there are 100 Pence per pound.


Seems the US Navy agrees concerning de-skilling...


“Mr McKinlay concluded: "Schools should teach navigation and map reading as life skills.


"The introduction of computers and calculators has not removed the need to understand numbers. The US Navy has started to teach celestial navigation again as a back-up skill.
"Navigation is where complex systems meet capable users." “


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...erts-warn.html