Renault F1 engine

gt40pinhd · 28 May 2007, 17:34 (Ref:1923047)

on youtube, i saw a renault f1 engine running. it appeared to have something injected into the top of the air horns as it was running. does anyone know what this is? it looks like water injection. is their an advantage to injecting water there?

thanks,
wes

zac510 · 28 May 2007, 19:25 (Ref:1923164)

It's fuel.

tristancliffe · 29 May 2007, 16:23 (Ref:1923913)

I think it's fuel too, but if it is water then it is a form of charge cooling (i.e. the high specific heat of water is used to lower the combustion temperatures, reduce knocking, and hence allow the use of more aggressive ignition timing or compression ratios. But I think that is outlawed in F1.

Notso Swift · 31 May 2007, 05:21 (Ref:1925127)

It is fuel.

Tristencliffe, Even back in the Turbo days when they had "water injection" they didn't spray water straight in, it was emulsified within the fuel

tristancliffe · 31 May 2007, 09:51 (Ref:1925298)

Of course, but spraying the water at the top of the trumpets would allow it to emulsify on the way to the cylinder. But direct water injection isn't unheard off either.

Smokey 6 litre · 3 Jun 2007, 15:47 (Ref:1927673)

Can we see the link!

Fairly sure its fuel, the injectors spray constantly directly into the inlet trumpets as the valve timings are so rapid.

Notso Swift · 4 Jun 2007, 06:24 (Ref:1928090)

No, not at all un heard of, I have people using it in my class, (it is sometimes called "Chemical intercooling") However, compared to having water emulsified it is a really crude way to do it, and the F1 guys don't do anything in a crude manner!
(except for maybe their treatment of the fans!)

gt40pinhd · 5 Jun 2007, 04:07 (Ref:1928998)

I should have posted the video. if you go on youtube and type in renault f1 engine in the search feature, you will see two videos of this engine. one with just the engine running and the other running on a dyno symulating a track run. on both, it seems like they are spraying a liquid into the top of the stacks. wouldn't think it was fuel. i was guessing it was water. but why? to what advantage? and when? when you accelerate? (wish i could spell!) look over the video if you get a chance, i am curious.
thanks.
wes

Denosaur · 5 Jun 2007, 05:39 (Ref:1929022)

You'll find that it's fuel going in. They get a better air/fuel mix.

As for mixing in water, thats a new to me and a couple engine builders I know.
The only case where I has seen water used was when it was sprade on a turbo.

Notso Swift · 6 Jun 2007, 05:08 (Ref:1929892)

Water injection has been around since the 1930's, an engineer called Ricardo developed the idea, he is a bit famous. Most pre-jet high performance aircraft use water injection. It is a very efficient way to combat detonation as it slows the combustion process (as well as cooling the charge), water is after all, a retardant!
It essentially works in two ways. Water has a very high specific heat rating (it can absorb lots of energy while only slowly increasing in temperature) and so the intake air is initially cooled. Next, the small drops of water start to evaporate. Water has a very high latent heat of evaporation (its change of state absorbs a lot of heat) and so the intake air charge is cooled still further.
It is more popular in Turbo/supercharged engines because they run with higher inlet tempretures, but it works in NA, especially when there are high combustion pressures, Petrol or Diesel, it doesn’t matter. Don't expect a 10:1 CR NA motor to see real benefits beyond a little more advance, but if you want a 15:1 Petrol NA, you will detonate without it!

With Turbos you need to inject the water AFTER the compressor or you will destroy the compressor wheel, with (PD type) superchargers it is common to inject it before because it increases efficiency, though there are limits to this. So some inject at multiple points.

SidewaysFeltham · 29 Jun 2007, 19:48 (Ref:1949980)

Very common in WW II, with conventional piston engined aircraft in "Boost" condition for take-off: e.g. with a heavy bomb load.

Increasingly being used today.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...njection&meta=

Mike_Wooshy · 12 Jul 2007, 07:47 (Ref:1961295)

Im pretty certain it would be fuel, seen a tricked out Honda B16 in an EG civic that ran 2 injectors per cylinder. 4 in the more conventional possition along the thottle bodies/inlet manifold. Another 4 above each of the ITB aiming into the trumpet. could this be similar ?

avsfan733 · 13 Jul 2007, 04:21 (Ref:1962100)

its definitely Fuel, those are fuel injectors spraying from a fuel rail. The Water injection systems that I have seen don't have the solenoid style setup that the fuel injectors do.

LiveandLetDrive · 14 Jul 2007, 00:08 (Ref:1962826)

Yes, enough speculation, it absolutely, definitely, for sure is fuel.

zac510 · 14 Jul 2007, 22:02 (Ref:1963292)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveandLetDrive

Yes, enough speculation, it absolutely, definitely, for sure is fuel.

nah, I'm pretty sure it is ground up virgin fairy wings. I saw that being injected into an engine once.

**dtype38** · 15 Jul 2007, 06:15 (Ref:1963417)

I think by majority vote, it's fuel being injected.

Question answered, thread closed.

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