A rumor that re-ignited the American VS Japanese car wars...

[MJ_N_09]

This past Monday, there was a weird rumor that Mark Martin was headed to Red Bull next year. It has since been denied, but once again, Toyota is in the crosshairs from fans.

If this rumor came true, alot of upset fans would have turned against Mark just because he'd be driving for "the enemy". This is where I ask a question.

To my non-American friends, where do all stand on this anti-Toyota thing? How do you like Detroit's big 3? Do you love/hate Toyota? Please speak up.

[FIRE]

Hating Toyota because their HQ in not in the US.

The anti-Toyota thing is not existing here in Europe. Okay brands like Hyundai, Kia, Chevrolet (Daewoo) are not always taken seriously (of course this is became less and less in the last decade) because of the quality and design but hated? No.

These narrow minded people watch NASCAR on their 25 year old RCA tv? Or did they switch to Japanese technology with a sticker on the Sony, Funai or Panasonic logo?

BTW In the past there were rumours about Red Bull switching to [Hendrick] Chevrolet.

[fieldodreams79]

well said, FIRE.

i don't like the Camry in nascar because it is built by hill billies in Kentucky.

and i'd like Mark Martin to go to a team where he can win and if he can do that Red Bull, good.

[MJ_N_09]

I'm with you guys. It's sad because as accepting as the USA has become, there's still the 4 to 11 Million Nascar fans here of which some seem to be questionable, or downright lost in the world.

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Hating Toyota because their HQ in not in the US.

The anti-Toyota thing is not existing here in Europe. Okay brands like Hyundai, Kia, Chevrolet (Daewoo) are not always taken seriously (of course this is became less and less in the last decade) because of the quality and design but hated? No.

These narrow minded people watch NASCAR on their 25 year old RCA tv? Or did they switch to Japanese technology with a sticker on the Sony, Funai or Panasonic logo?

BTW In the past there were rumours about Red Bull switching to [Hendrick] Chevrolet.

I should also point out that NOONE complained about the Red Bull to Chevy rumor. Gee, I wonder why.........

[cavvy]

Here in Australia, motor racing is dominated by our local manufacturers, GM (Holden) & Ford, we dont see Toyota in our only professional category (V8 supercars).
In case the Holden & Ford fans are battling they're identified as Red & Blue like some punch drunk boxer.
Toyota do manufacture in Aus & occupy the #1 spot in the market place, which to cynics (me), begs the question : why would Toyota bother with V8s/motor sport?

[MJ_N_09]

Should I even link a thread that shows exactly the ignorance that I'm talking about?

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by cavvy

Here in Australia, motor racing is dominated by our local manufacturers, GM (Holden) & Ford, we dont see Toyota in our only professional category (V8 supercars).
In case the Holden & Ford fans are battling they're identified as Red & Blue like some punch drunk boxer.
Toyota do manufacture in Aus & occupy the #1 spot in the market place, which to cynics (me), begs the question : why would Toyota bother with V8s/motor sport?

i've heard first hand accounts of camping on top of THE mountain and fist-a-cuffs between Holden and Ford fans down under, but the Aussie touring car series has had Japanese and other foreign manufactures come win races and several championships. how was that received?

it seems Toyota has had a large interest in motor racing in recent years and have found some success in a series that contains the manufacturers for which they compete with in road car sales, even though they do not mass produce a V8 road car.

sadly, you don't see very many new V8 cars on the road these days but you do see way too many V8 mustangs and pick ups, tho.

[MJ_N_09]

Actually, the Lexus brand has many V8 engined models, but they are the most boring V8s ever.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

Should I even link a thread that shows exactly the ignorance that I'm talking about?

do it.

it will surely be eye opening for some, entertaining for others, a reminder to some longtime nascar fans of why they don't bother reading certain thoughts of certain people and just plain sad to everyone.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

Actually, the Lexus brand has many V8 engined models, but they are the most boring V8s ever.

o yeah. forgot about them.
boring V8s must have been a better fit in the GrandAm.

[MJ_N_09]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/20002...ascar/55501895


This is it.

[JHamilton]

There is always a woman in a Camry in my way. I'd never buy a Japanese truck. Sue me.

More than anything, the most disturbing news has nothing to do with Nascar. Bigfoot is now a Chevy. As a diehard GM guy, this is just wrong.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/07/b...ter-more-than/

[MJ_N_09]

No biggie. Chevy is my fav of the American makes. There I said it.

[duke_toaster]

I struggle to see why anyone should have an issue with non-US manufacturers. The BTCC has only four or five cars that are of a British marque (which is GM owned), doesn't matter. The worst example of this was what happened with the touring car rules in Australia, effectively a case of banning foreign cars because the domestic machinery, due to its lack of technological advancement (sticking with oversized V8 engines and RWD pretending four wheel drive and the turbocharger hadn't been invented), was being outclassed. All this talk about where the road cars are built is equally bizarre.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

I struggle to see why anyone should have an issue with non-US manufacturers.The BTCC has only four or five cars that are of a British marque (which is GM owned), doesn't matter. The worst example of this was what happened with the touring car rules in Australia, effectively a case of banning foreign cars because the domestic machinery, due to its lack of technological advancement (sticking with oversized V8 engines and RWD pretending four wheel drive and the turbocharger hadn't been invented), was being outclassed.

i used to wonder why there were issues with non-US manufacturers as well until i lost my manufacturing job due, in part, to overseas competition. wouldn't be a problem if American car makers didn't have to pay the most ridiculous union wages on the planet.

with that said, i've got two Japanese cars in the driveway.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

Harsh much? Deosn't matter because since people have stopped responding to this thread, I probably hurt my reputtion here , just like I did there.

Internet, gotta love it.

you had a reputation to uphold?

Originally Posted by JHamilton

There is always a woman in a Camry in my way. I'd never buy a Japanese truck. Sue me.

how's the American Iron holding up?

Originally Posted by JHamilton

More than anything, the most disturbing news has nothing to do with Nascar. Bigfoot is now a Chevy. As a diehard GM guy, this is just wrong.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/07/b...ter-more-than/

Big foot a Chevy?! Unbelievable! What a travesty!

I blame Obama.

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

The worst example of this was what happened with the touring car rules in Australia, effectively a case of banning foreign cars because the domestic machinery, due to its lack of technological advancement (sticking with oversized V8 engines and RWD pretending four wheel drive and the turbocharger hadn't been invented), was being outclassed. All this talk about where the road cars are built is equally bizarre.

no need to mention the spiralling costs, difficulty in ensuring there wasn't any cheating, the fact that the cars being raced were rarely (if at all) seen on Australian roads, no crowds in comparison to the V8's...

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

no need to mention the spiralling costs, difficulty in ensuring there wasn't any cheating, the fact that the cars being raced were rarely (if at all) seen on Australian roads, no crowds in comparison to the V8's...

They were factors in the changes, but they don't explain the Australian made clause in the rules for the 5000cc V8s.

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

i used to wonder why there were issues with non-US manufacturers as well until i lost my manufacturing job due, in part, to overseas competition. wouldn't be a problem if American car makers didn't have to pay the most ridiculous union wages on the planet.

with that said, i've got two Japanese cars in the driveway.

Funny you say that, don't Toyota make the Camry in the US but the other manufacturers build the cars in Canada or Mexico? In the same way the the Vauxhall Insignia (they replacement for what the factory BTCC team ran before the team was pulled) is built alongside the LHD Opels (and the RHD one for ROI), but Honda Accords are being built in Swindon. Not that there's anything else of interest in Swindon, mind

[duke_toaster]

<accidental double post>

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

how's the American Iron holding up?

Runs like a top. That is one tough little truck.

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Funny you say that, don't Toyota make the Camry in the US but the other manufacturers build the cars in Canada or Mexico? In the same way the the Vauxhall Insignia (they replacement for what the factory BTCC team ran before the team was pulled) is built alongside the LHD Opels (and the RHD one for ROI), but Honda Accords are being built in Swindon. Not that there's anything else of interest in Swindon, mind

All of this is due to America's difficulty in embracing the global economy or the idea of it anyway. It's all in our heads. For example, my American branded car was built in Austrailia, but the engine was built in Canada and the transmission in Mexico. We get the Insignia next year as a Buick Regal, built in Canada. Still won't buy a Japanese truck even if it's the best thing on the road. I've got an image to uphold.

[duke_toaster]

Might part (generally, not personally, both subconsciously or consciously) of the thing with Japanese cars be to do with historical reasons (the same ones that where brought up when Toyota first joined)? Bearing in mind both the US and the UK have been in dodgy conflicts (more often than not started by the UK/US) with pretty much everyone, that might narrow the list somewhat. Unless someone starts a Swiss motor manufacturer ...

[R59]

I think you have to look at things in perspective here. Both NASCAR and Aussie V8's have specific engine rules. Other manufacturers could enter Aussie V8's if they met the rules (Australian market/built car with push-rod V8 of 5 litres etc..).
For NASCAR, Toyota wanted to be part of the biggest show on earth, to sell not only cars, but trucks/SUV's. They felt they would benefit from being in the sport, even though they had to design an engine specifically for the "show".

Because they weren't a Detroit based car maker, flying the stars'n'stripes, there was always going to be a large anti-following. Being Japanese, I guess it would have to be a bigger anti-following than if they'd been a European manufacturer.

Regarding Big Foot going GM. Well, I guess it was going to happen some time. What with the leading Top Fuel drag racers running BBC's with Mopar on the valve covers!

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Runs like a top. That is one tough little truck.

when was the last time you had a flat?
i am sure mine are about to break no that i am talking .

Originally Posted by JHamilton

All of this is due to America's difficulty in embracing the global economy or the idea of it anyway. It's all in our heads. For example, my American branded car was built in Austrailia, but the engine was built in Canada and the transmission in Mexico.

it's not "in my head" when i see 5th generation American farmers losing the farm because it is cheaper to ship produce from other countries. but, I agree with you and we have nobody but ourselves to blame. we are a consumer driven society that's wants everything dirt cheap but we want to make the highest wages for doing as little work as possible.

God Bless America.

Originally Posted by JHamilton

We get the Insignia next year as a Buick Regal, built in Canada.

And I hope the "new Regal" goes over better than the other (seriously) GREAT car from down under they "brought back" under another name. A German brand, built in Canada and sold in America as a Buick; you think most American's can understand and embrace that?

If it runs good, is comfortable and affordable, I would drive it. Still rather have a GNX, tho.

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Still won't buy a Japanese truck even if it's the best thing on the road. I've got an image to uphold.

....or would someone "disown" you?

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by R59

Because they weren't a Detroit based car maker, flying the stars'n'stripes, there was always going to be a large anti-following. Being Japanese, I guess it would have to be a bigger anti-following than if they'd been a European manufacturer.

Perhaps you are right, but I think that is big assumption. If BMW, Merc or Jag entered nascar, I think there would be just as much animosity from the "blue collar" crowd because of the impression of Euro car owner mentality.

Toyota's market in America has to be a huge portion of their world sales (I have no figures to back that up), and they do enjoy their racing, so it was a no-brainer to enter nascar. Other than the "T" on the front of the car, I think that a Camry could be considered just as American as any other of the "boxes" on track. Is the Camry sold anywhere else the world?

Before Toyota entered, a foreign make won only one race in the Cup/Grand National series, EVER; a Jag won a road course race in New Jersey in 1954. For a country that is slow to change and a series that is even slower to change, it shouldn't be too much of a surprise that a foreign make coming to the series and doing well, stirs up a lot of feelings. Whether the feelings are right or wrong, certain people who have either owned a Chevy, a Ford or (God forbid) a Dodge their entire life and cheered their favorite driver in their favorite make are going to be a little angry when the "new kid" from another neighborhood comes into their yard and starts kicking ass.

But, how many people who drive a Camry, actually watch nascar? That is the REAL issue with me. My guess; very few Camry owners even know what is a when you say "stockcar". Perhaps, these days, that makes no difference.