Why are there no women drivers in F1?

alchemy · 8 Nov 2002, 12:13 (Ref:424527)

Results of scientifically controlled experiments announced today revealed women are low in something called ‘Spacial Awareness’. One of many tests conclusively showed women, compared to men are inferior when manoeuvring a vehicle. Is this part of the reason there has never been a successful woman F1 driver?

Mr V · 8 Nov 2002, 12:19 (Ref:424532)

I believe that when Women have had a go at F1 before, the cars were more of a handful than they are now, and consequently didn't do so well, as a woman hasn't "shone" because of this then the teams won't take the risk again.

Morris 1100 · 8 Nov 2002, 12:20 (Ref:424534)

Because they don't have the Balls

alchemy · 8 Nov 2002, 12:24 (Ref:424538)

Quote:

Originally posted by Morris 1100
Because they don't have the Balls

Not sure as I’d like one with those!

NME · 8 Nov 2002, 12:30 (Ref:424543)

I would love to see a Woman having a fair shot at F1 !
Marketiing wise would be Mega ... but please lets have a girl that drives like a man but looks like a woman, ok?

sazzle · 8 Nov 2002, 12:41 (Ref:424549)

The last woman in formula one drove one of the worse cars ever - Then was replaced by damon hill who didnt do much better that year

Lack of sponsorship and positive encouragement stops many women from racing, from the ages of 8 - 14 the number of girls who hold msa licences is around 40% (for karting etc) then after that the number of women drops to 2%

TimD · 8 Nov 2002, 13:12 (Ref:424567)

Okay, let me get this straight...

Women do not succeed because they do not have the stamina.
Women do not succeed because they do not have the car control.
Women do not succeed because they do not have the courage (I'm paraphrasing you, okay, Morris 1100).

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present exhibit 1. Kay Petre.

The car she is seated in was her regular drive - a 10,500cc Delage V12, built for a Land Speed Record attempt, and thus ill-suited for racing on a track, but Kay raced it at Brooklands, a banked oval with undulations so severe that a car travelling at more than 90mph would leap off the bumps and fly for several feet at a time. Emphasis that this is on the banking itself, not the straight.

She won several races, and consistently achieved average lap-speeds in excess of 130mph. To put that into context, she was the tenth of only sixteen drivers ever to lap Brooklands over 130.

The car obviously has no power steering, no synchromesh on the gearbox, and weighs in at slightly over two tons. Kay was 5ft1ins tall, and a little under 7 stone.

And why have you never heard of Kay Petre? Well, perhaps it's because in 1937 her career was cut short when she was rammed on the banking by a competitor's spinning car and left with near-fatal head injuries when her car rolled on her. She survived the accident, but never returned to racing after her recuperation. The man who had lost control of his MG and collided with her was Reg Parnell, who went on to be one of the most respected amateur Grand Prix drivers of the immediate post-war years.

Can I suggest therefore that the suggestion that the lack of contemporary female drivers in top-flight motor racing has more to do with sponsorship and marketing issues than any innate inability in controlling a fast racing car?

Nicholas · 8 Nov 2002, 13:39 (Ref:424580)

I think it's more that the bosses don't have the balls other than anything else. And that there aren't many women actually racing, so it's not that surprising. As for spacial awareness, that's been known for ages and some scientists have clearly been dossing around for nothing.

Rob29 · 8 Nov 2002, 15:49 (Ref:424670)

This subject needs serious research as the facts do not make any sense.The percentage of women in racing seems to have been greater in the 1930s when cars were harder to drive and circuits rougher.(Elizebetha Junek once led the Targa Florio).
Why are sponsors so bigoted? The only British series with more than one woman regularly competing is the 2CVs which fielded 4 last weekend!

Liz · 8 Nov 2002, 17:44 (Ref:424730)

Very clearly the marketing and PR people who stock the paddock with Pit Bimboes and Grid Lollies have convinced young women that their only option in the motorsports world involves taking off as much of their wardrobe as legally possible and until they invent see-through Nomex, you won't see any girls in Formula One.

Kay Petrie, incidentally, is Canadian. She's in the Canadian Motorsports Hall of Fame. And I bet you couldn't get TGF to drive her car on a demonstration run today. "Too dangerous ... "

ASCII Man · 8 Nov 2002, 17:58 (Ref:424742)

What about Sarah Kavanaugh?
She did a physical test with McLaren and was deemed fit enough to race F1...
She was quite good (not extraordinarely good) with a 1994 Jordan F1 car in the Euroboss Championship.
Haven't heared from her since quite a while...

Rob29 · 8 Nov 2002, 20:06 (Ref:424802)

See www.sarahkavanagh.com/ You may see her in Intl F3000 next year.
BTW: Kay Petre was born in Canada,but AFAIK moved to England before starting racing,where she lived until her death a few years ago.

R · 8 Nov 2002, 23:20 (Ref:424885)

Quote:

Originally posted by alchemy
Results of scientifically controlled experiments announced today revealed women are low in something called ‘Spacial Awareness’. One of many tests conclusively showed women, compared to men are inferior when manoeuvring a vehicle.

These are pretty stern words. Can you provide a source for your info?

Valve Bounce · 8 Nov 2002, 23:30 (Ref:424891)

Then there was the beautiful and sexy Michelle Mouton, who not only beat all the men at Rallying, but enterred the famous Pikes Peak run. The men laughed at her so after beating all of them going up, she challenged them to race her down the hill if they had the balls - not a single man came forward to accept her challenge.

So much for that Spatial/spacial nonsense. Sounds more like Specious BS

JonesF1 · 9 Nov 2002, 00:24 (Ref:424905)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Then there was the beautiful and sexy Michelle Mouton, who not only beat all the men at Rallying, but enterred the famous Pikes Peak run. The men laughed at her so after beating all of them going up, she challenged them to race her down the hill if they had the balls - not a single man came forward to accept her challenge.
So much for that Spatial/spacial nonsense. Sounds more like Specious BS

And I believe that was her first time at Pikes Peak (in a modifyed B-spec Audi no less). Think of all the guys that have competed there for 20+ years and havent done as well as she did. One of the great rally drivers imo.

Valve Bounce · 9 Nov 2002, 02:57 (Ref:424951)

She was indeed one of the greatest rally drivers ever. Fittingly, all these male chauvinist pigs love to ignore my post above, which I have posted before.

I still have her on tape in the Auto Union Years, and I just love to play it to remind myself how great she really is.

avsfan733 · 9 Nov 2002, 04:43 (Ref:424969)

im a guy and i see lots of girls karting in my club they kick butt and i also have heard from some proffessors at my college that they try to field women drivers in FSAE cuz they are lighter and have calmer reflexes they aren't a bunch of testosterone driven drift monkeys

alchemy · 9 Nov 2002, 08:37 (Ref:425008)

Quote:

Originally posted by R
These are pretty stern words. Can you provide a source for your info?

Yes, the source was via BBC’s 5 live radio station, a few days ago, where it had been a discussion topic during the day.

Valve Bounce · 9 Nov 2002, 08:55 (Ref:425011)

Care to back any of your so called male Spacially Aware drivers against Michelle Mouton's time at Pike's Peak??

alchemy · 9 Nov 2002, 10:59 (Ref:425034)

My experiences from coaching in Karting, Formula Ford and production saloons are that the actual ‘car control’ aspect varies very little between sexes. Riding the ‘brink’ however is where it begins to show. That ability to go up to the edge run along it and go back again and again - under pressure, is the difference.

Lapping fast in itself is nothing really. Consistently doing it is different. Then consistently doing it under pressure is where the male seems to be superior.

I wonder if its a simple thing that women scream in horror films - men don’t!

It’s nothing to do with balls. If it were left to men to endure the pain of child birth, then humans would have been long extinct! Bravery and lack of fear have nothing to do with being a good race driver. In fact the graveyard’s full of brave drivers!

Valve Bounce · 9 Nov 2002, 11:41 (Ref:425052)

Let me guess: you're coaching under the Spacially awareness programme. Love to see one of your spacially aware male top guns try Pikes Peak??

Thought not!!

alchemy · 9 Nov 2002, 12:26 (Ref:425083)

Personally I think this spacialy awareness stuff is not necessarily all that relevant to racing . Race drivers don’t necessarily make good road drivers - fact!

I knew of one top race driver who was worse at reversing into a parking place than my granny! The other thing he couldn’t get to grips with was to successfully reverse with a trailer coupled. But once strapped into a race car, he simply flew!

Warwick · 9 Nov 2002, 18:10 (Ref:425183)

Having raced a sidecar with both a male and female rider,I would agree somewhat with alchemy,in that the lady I now race with is taking longer to get up to speed and find that edge that he's talking about than the male did.

One area where they seriously differ is that the woman will accept feedback and is more prepared to act on it than the male ever was.

RT · 9 Nov 2002, 19:34 (Ref:425247)

I doubt there are any real physiological reasons why women cannot succeed as drivers in F1. Appart from sheer muscle mass, I doubt there is another relevant difference.

You could make the point that (as "Morris 1100" poetically pointed out) women don't have balls and therefore would be able to withstand the effects of G-forces on the groin area (ask Eddie Irvine if that can be important in a race).

Women are great surgeons, ballet dancers, seamstresses, waitresses, gymnasts and a few other trades that require "spatial peception". I'd like to know what journal this study was published in or what the scientific methods were. The history of science is full of "scientific" studies that farcically "prove" the bias of whoever was trying to hold on to a social prejudice.

The current emphasis on high tech features would probably render muscle mass irrelevant. I believe it's mostly a matter of developing women from the current pool of karting talent. It will take a few years but there will be women in the series and, yes, they will win their share of F1 races.

Nicholas · 9 Nov 2002, 22:32 (Ref:425293)

Sarah Kavanagh is a member here, she posts on the junior formulae forum.

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