Are 18 inch wheels a good thing?

P38 in workshop · 9 Jul 2014, 18:42 (Ref:3432242)

I have read a little about the test at Silverstone which saw 18 inch wheels trialled.It might look like the proportions of the wheels and tyres fitted to road cars,but is it all good?For starters the weight of the wheel and tyre assembly is 4 kilos heavier.They hardly ever become detached these days,but if one of these larger rotating assemblies should fly off,the potential for damage has to be greater.

In addition,the larger wheel rim would permit the use of larger brakes.While the greater weight of the wheel and tyre would more easily be slowed by the larger brake disc,there may be other concerns.I have read of dragster drivers suffering detached retinas after years of violent deceleration and they only use the chute once per run for a small number of runs over a weekend.

I also wonder what shape the future chassis would have to take to make best use of the characteristics of the proposed tyre.Would aerodynamics continue to dominate the suspension geometry?

MoMedic9019 · 9 Jul 2014, 18:51 (Ref:3432243)

No. They look absolutely hideous. Beyond all of the other things you've pointed out, there just isn't much need short of opening up a tire war again.

Greem · 9 Jul 2014, 19:06 (Ref:3432244)

Hideous? Really?

Every design change over the years has been meet with split opinions. Even the ones with some unanimity are soon forgotten - stepped noses, proboscises and so on.

I think the 18" wheels look fine, myself.

Richard C · 9 Jul 2014, 19:22 (Ref:3432247)

I think prototype racing already uses 18" wheels? Seems to work there? It also seems so counter to what F1 should be about as I expect a significant amount of spring (and some damping) comes via the existing tires (think of them as spec suspension components). I assume that with a shorter sidewall that the actual suspension will do more of the work. It probably also makes it harder for a given tire company to design (old tire) as it is so specialized? Overall, I think the current diameter is a throwback without much of a reason to exist today?

With that being said, they do look very odd. But... I expect we will get used to it quite quickly. Who talks about those ugly noses anymore?!

Richard

chillibowl · 9 Jul 2014, 19:42 (Ref:3432253)

not as technically minded as others here, but dont larger tires mean decrease in fuel efficiency or is that just for road cars or just some old wives tale?

if it is the same then its sort of contrary to the whole green thing going on no?

anyways from what i have seen i like the look.

karting · 9 Jul 2014, 19:47 (Ref:3432257)

Looks good to me

TheNo1F1Fan · 9 Jul 2014, 20:23 (Ref:3432276)

Richard C · 9 Jul 2014, 21:02 (Ref:3432283)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

not as technically minded as others here, but dont larger tires mean decrease in fuel efficiency or is that just for road cars or just some old wives tale?

I don't know if they increase the weight or not (OP says more). Heavier and/or moving weight away from the center of the wheel would hurt (from an acceleration/deceleration perspective)

Richard

P38 in workshop · 9 Jul 2014, 21:11 (Ref:3432288)

Information about the weight from here; http://www.pitpass.com/52025/Success...s-18-inch-tyre

**Adam43** · 9 Jul 2014, 21:34 (Ref:3432292)

P38, presumably there are no plans to increase the maximum brake disc size?

chillibowl, I don't think they are suggestion larger tyres (radius or width), just lower profile.

I suppose it can be used to justify inappropriately sized wheels/tyres for road cars.

jee · 9 Jul 2014, 22:06 (Ref:3432297)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

P38, presumably there are no plans to increase the maximum brake disc size?

There is no maximum size in the rulebook, they are only limited by rim size.

TrapezeArtist · 9 Jul 2014, 22:09 (Ref:3432299)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

PI suppose it can be used to justify inappropriately sized wheels/tyres for road cars.

So true. I am at a total loss to understand why manufacturers and the car-buying public sacrifice so much refinement and ride quality for some perceived improvement in handling that cannot be used under modern road conditions.

**Adam43** · 9 Jul 2014, 22:16 (Ref:3432300)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jee

There is no maximum size in the rulebook, they are only limited by rim size.

The maximum allowed is 278mm diameter (and 28mm thick). Rule 11.3.2.
2014 F1 technical regs

JeremySmith · 9 Jul 2014, 22:16 (Ref:3432301)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

I suppose it can be used to justify inappropriately sized wheels/tyres for road cars.

That is so true, I think most cars with 18" rims look rather silly...

Why is F1 thinking of doing this??

JHamilton · 9 Jul 2014, 22:18 (Ref:3432302)

I think it looks fantastic!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

So true. I am at a total loss to understand why manufacturers and the car-buying public sacrifice so much refinement and ride quality for some perceived improvement in handling that cannot be used under modern road conditions.

Because it looks better! And you should pull off the stock rims and go +1.

Always the first thing I ruin... I mean do when I buy a new car.

JHamilton · 9 Jul 2014, 22:21 (Ref:3432305)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

That is so true, I think most cars with 18" rims look rather silly...

Why is F1 thinking of doing this??

It depends on the car, but for the most part 18" looks too small to me.

JeremySmith · 10 Jul 2014, 00:14 (Ref:3432331)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHamilton

It depends on the car, but for the most part 18" looks too small to me.

Do these rims come with Dr Dre headphones because they are complete rubbish..

**GTRMagic** · 10 Jul 2014, 00:31 (Ref:3432332)

The teams will have to invest in new suspensions, which will have to take the bulk of the 'give' that was previously taken by the big bag of the tyre. Damper technology will become even more critical... more money more money...

But.. that kind of development can filter back into road cars. There arent too many new cars for sale today with a 13" wheel rim that is getting on for a foot wide in tread... however 18" wheels seem to be de rigeur for lots of new cars on sale

My last 2 came equipped with 18" from the factory... neither of which rides as well as you might like, while the grip and feel is outstanding.

A move to market relevance? Like hybrid?

JHamilton · 10 Jul 2014, 01:09 (Ref:3432334)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Do these rims come with Dr Dre headphones because they are complete rubbish..

lol... not trying to be offensive and making a huge assumption, but maybe it's generational? I have 19s on a car and 20s on a truck. I think it looks right. I'm not talking about a donk, anything bigger than 20 is too big.

wnut · 10 Jul 2014, 01:23 (Ref:3432337)

Quote:

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Information about the weight from here; http://www.pitpass.com/52025/Success...s-18-inch-tyre

I don't think you can read anything into the weight P38:

" With the concept tyre designed principally to showcase aesthetics rather than performance, and a general-purpose compound, lap times were not the focus. Instead, the objective was to gauge reaction to the very different new design, which received the thumbs up from most observers."

A large rim with a low profile tyre properly designed should always be lighter than the same diameter wheel with a high profile tyre. I guess they just machined up a handy set of aluminium road wheels to do the demonstration laps!

The low profile tyres provide a bigger more stable contact patch for the same wheel diameter, and would avoid the tyre resonance issues, you sometimes see huge tyre shake in the super slow motions after a wheel jumps a kerb.

The only reason that super low profiles are not the best road tyres is that the public roads are not smooth and full of ruts and potholes which the low profile tyres cannot absorb because of their lack of depth in the side wall to cushion road shock.

On a perfect surface there is no question that a low profile setup is the way to go.

MoMedic9019 · 10 Jul 2014, 01:28 (Ref:3432338)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greem

Hideous? Really?

Every design change over the years has been meet with split opinions. Even the ones with some unanimity are soon forgotten - stepped noses, proboscises and so on.

I think the 18" wheels look fine, myself.

Yes really. The cars are super ugly already....this doesn't help.

JeremySmith · 10 Jul 2014, 01:41 (Ref:3432342)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHamilton

lol... not trying to be offensive and making a huge assumption, but maybe it's generational? I have 19s on a car and 20s on a truck. I think it looks right. I'm not talking about a donk, anything bigger than 20 is too big.

I was just being silly, but I am not sure I understand why we need these rims ??

miatanut · 10 Jul 2014, 01:42 (Ref:3432343)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

I don't think you can read anything into the weight P38:
A large rim with a low profile tyre properly designed should always be lighter than the same diameter wheel with a high profile tyre. I guess they just machined up a handy set of aluminium road wheels to do the demonstration laps!

Thank goodness, I'm not going crazy!

I was thinking with a whole lot of rubber being replaced by, well, nothing, and a little more metal needed to make the wheel, the whole thing should be lighter, not heavier.

I'm used to 16's on a small car, and I think they look nice. I have thought the F1 tire to wheel proportions have looked rather old fashioned for many years.

With relatively out of control air-filled rubber being replaced by highly-refined dampers, the lower profile should give a little better corning.

I vote thumbs up.

JeremySmith · 10 Jul 2014, 01:42 (Ref:3432344)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

I don't think you can read anything into the weight P38:

" With the concept tyre designed principally to showcase aesthetics rather than performance, and a general-purpose compound, lap times were not the focus. Instead, the objective was to gauge reaction to the very different new design, which received the thumbs up from most observers."

A large rim with a low profile tyre properly designed should always be lighter than the same diameter wheel with a high profile tyre. I guess they just machined up a handy set of aluminium road wheels to do the demonstration laps!

The low profile tyres provide a bigger more stable contact patch for the same wheel diameter, and would avoid the tyre resonance issues, you sometimes see huge tyre shake in the super slow motions after a wheel jumps a kerb.

The only reason that super low profiles are not the best road tyres is that the public roads are not smooth and full of ruts and potholes which the low profile tyres cannot absorb because of their lack of depth in the side wall to cushion road shock.

On a perfect surface there is no question that a low profile setup is the way to go.

I think you just explained why thank you..

JHamilton · 10 Jul 2014, 01:42 (Ref:3432345)

I compare it to headlight stickers in Nascar. Pirelli wants to show something that looks like you and I buy.

Correction... something I would buy.

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