The Future Of Clubmans RallyCross.

[BertMk2]

Ok, following on the discussions cropping up in the GP thread here's the separate thread for Clubmans discussion

What do you think of the current state of Clubmans Rallycross in the UK (and Ireland?). Is the CDMC championship a good stage for the Clubmen? Are the BTRDA and MDA covering the Clubmans needs well enough? Do we need another Clubmans series (Super Series return?). What could be done to make Clubman level rallycross better? Is there even such a thing as Clubmans Rallycross?

All opinions welcome

[AndyS]

As I suggested this should be in a seperate thread I'd better contribute, although I think others are better qualified. For me the Clubmans are very important as that's where it all starts from really. The majority of runners would probably be classed as a clubman. I personally think everybody needs to be in the same place with a class structure to suit. As a spectator I thought the class structure looked messy in the joint events last year, particularly for somebody visiting their first event. This is no fault of the competitors though. The drivers are probably best qualified to suggest a structure the suits all budgets, accommodates the desire of the BRC to convey a quality image and what appears to be a growing number of Swift and RX150 drivers.

[leonidas]

I just think you have to make the lower classes more attractive to boost numbers.

Its all a matter of opinion but personally, Swifts and RX150s don't appeal to me either as a competitor or a spectator. Swifts aren't exciting cars and for me RX150s aren't 'real' rallycross. They are also quite poor value - a clubman modified can be a lot swifter than a Swift - and cheaper.

Hot hatch might take off and be better but the age restrictions haven't given it an easy birth.

Some time ago several of us on here advocated a production-based 4wd class as a support class. The Open Championship experimented with this but by then the Open was on its last legs and the idea died with it. If a class like this took off I would be out there tomorrow. As it is I spend my limited time and money rallying although I love rallycross and spectate whenever I can.

[USRallycross]

The sport obviously needs a clubman series which probably has to (is forced to) run away from the BRC. The challenge is always going to be how to do that economically if you want to go somewhere other than Blyton.

I grew up in Minicross and did my time in Stock Hatch when we had 50+ cars but very quickly in both series costs went up and all of a sudden instead of being out there for fun and doing the best I can it was all about winning and if people couldn't win because so and so had done this to their car they stayed home. I never understood that but I know enough drivers who parked up with the adage of "If I can't win I won't race"

Right now the best way forward for a clubmans series may be the simple Chesson formula of the 80's winter series which was everybody runs together and we will have finals for everyone. This way you get better racing because you are in heats with cars on similar times as opposed racing with someone just because they are in your class eventhough their car is x better than yours. You still get a final and hopefully you still smile.

If we are honest with ourselves most of those who watch clubman rallycross are either a) anoraks like all of us and would watch any rallycross or b) the casual motorsport fan who wants to see close racing. This format meets both their needs. But we also have to honest and recognize that we won't have thousands and paying to watch and that will eliminate some tracks from the equation.

However, with social media (especially Facebook) it is possible to generate awareness and gain followers, spectators, etc. I think the CDMC Championship did a good job this year being what it is and not pretending or trying to be what it is not.

Sorry for the long post but being what I consider a clubman for all my driving career I feel pretty passionate about this and miss trips on cold wet days to Lydden to see 30 odd cars pound around. So keep it simple and true. don't try and solve the world with new classes or to please everybody. Offer the best price you can and let people have fun. if that means every event is at Blyton then that is fine. It is a good track that wants you unlike other places (!)

I wish, whoever leads the charge, the best of luck. Happy to chat over a beer at Croft with anyone as well eventhough I will have the mega$$$ truck there (yes, I went to the dark side!)

Mark

[leonidas]

You speak a lot of sense there Mark. Sometimes new classes attract new drivers (such as stock hatch did at first) but there's certainly no point in inventing new classes unless you could be confident they would attract significant support. The old winter series formula makes a lot of sense - it means you can run whatever you've got. It also makes it interesting for the spectator as there is a wide variety of cars and the potential of 'giant killing'.

[redtop raiders]

Things are looking bigger and brighter for the CDMC Rallycross championship for 2012.
The new updated and tweeked regs should be on the CDMC website soon if not there already, feel free to have a look

we are looking to hold possibly 8 rounds at three venues
I cant say too much at minute til we get confirmation of what we are planning but i think 2012 will be a fabulous season

[chunder]

In all honesty clubmans rallycross has never really baan massive.

Apart from maybe the early stock hatch days?

It has always sort of run alongside or within a British championship, apart from the glory days of the 80's and 70's when rallycross was booming.

I have often advocated a basic 4wd class, with the right regs in place to prevent pothunters just turning up with a 100 grand Evo 10 and winning everything.

Cars like Si Hortons early car or that other guy in the Subaru are ideal, maybe people who want to run 4wd but cant afford stuff like Scott, Procter and Doran.

Cant see why Stock Hatch doesnt work as well as it did, is it regs? Cheats? Tyres? It oculd ahve been like the old SPC class.

GVuys like Bert running rally cars are good too, but you have to be aware that these cars are heavier so might be strong but not perhaps as good as a proper modifies running fibre panels and special floors and shells.

[redtop raiders]

In CDMC new regs we have a nearly basic 4 wheel drive class, hopefully the way we have written the regs will allow it to be policed properly, although if someone wanted to flaunt the regs i suppose they will always find a way,
we also have a class for the good old stock hatch

[jcrally]

I believe most competitors try and stand alone , picking up the bills as they come in, and have a limited budget.

Some of you on here are aware we dont do it like that. The white E30 BMW in BTRDA Super mods is a shared car. Simple split the costs with a friend. You can have as much fun at an event being part of a Team, share the driving. This year Gary got a class win and runner up in Super mods, I used it in the British and other bits.

We are both doing croft ( we are testing my rallycar at the meeting ) please come and have a chat , see how we do it.

What would be good if some sort of team award could be given. There are all sorts of ways that could work.

Regards

John

[BertMk2]

What do you think the possibilities of sharing track hire costs with circuit racers? Thinking specifically of Lydden here - SEMSEC circuit meetings currently share track hire with sprint meets. Is there a possibility to run circuit racing (or sprints) in the morning and then rallycross clubmans in the afternoon? That way circuit hire costs could be spread amongst a potentially larger group of people? I don't know how practical it would be - I'm assuming that rescue unit requirements etc would be the same across the board.

[toonlad1978]

As Redtop Raiders said,

We are just awaiting things to be finalised before releasing the provisional regs, which will be asap!

We have tried to keep things simple, not over complicate the regulations and have a class which now caters for 4x4s.

We will announce as soon as the regs are on the website, on here, facebook and on twitter so hopefully get word out to the masses and have a great 2012 championship.

You can now follow us on twitter - @cramlingtondmc


Regards - Toonlad

[USRallycross]

I like the track sharing idea. It would allow people to drive to the track Saturday morning and leave Saturday night so no overnight stays or days off of work for most people. Anything that saves money is good!

The question is (I guess) around track cleaning. There is obviously more work for LHMC post a rallycross event with the sweeper. Not sure how much effort that is.

You could easily run a Clubmans event from 1/2pm through 5.30pm on a Saturday.

Apart from track cleaning it will all come down to $$$ - would the revenue from rallycross entry fees plus gate receipts be bigger than that they gather for the track hire portion of the current event? If it makes more money then you have something you could take to Amy. If it doesn't make more money then my guess is that it would be a tough sell.

Mark

[chunder]

Track and even car sharing are great ideas

For someone like me who would love to do some tracks days, or even compete as some level, it is impossible right now as I can afford a place with a garage or even any parking space! And to be honest leaving something like that laying around in Stevenage is asking for trouble!

Would love to have a crack at something, but just dont have the facilities or storage at home.

[Hickey1]

I would consider myself at the bottom end of the scale for a Clubman racer, as the condition of my car proves. However, I would not be out on track, having an absolute blast, without the use of my inlaws farm on which to keep and work on the car, and the same goes for my Dad/brother's car.

[toonlad1978]

2012 Cramlington and District Rallycross Championship provisional regs are now available on the website in the downloads section along with a championship registration form.

www.cramlington-district-motorclub.co.uk


Regards, Toonlad

[leonidas]

Track sharing would certainly be worth looking at. The basic problem with most motorsport venues is they need a lot of capital investment and there are not enough activities and spectators to get a return - hence why costs are high.

I've often wondered if it would be possible for the promoters of 'minority' motorsports (especially karting, stock cars, autocross, rallycross and single venue rallying) to get together and develop a decent central venue with shared facilities. There's no reason why it couldn't be based around a quarter mile oval with track offshoots for karting/ralling. Throw in driving schools/experience centres and you might have a viable business.

That way you could have a centre that operated intesively throughout the year and would have a big enough customer throughput to develop decent spectator facilities (covered stands, restaurants, camping, motel etc).

A long shot maybe but not impossible?

[bobster55]

Just picked up calendar for btrda for next yr: april1 - blyton
June 3/4 - nutts corner
Aug 4 - lydden
Sept 16 - blyton
Oct 21 - lydden
Also 3 tba at knockhill, pembrey and blyton
It states that this is a clubmans championship for the working family however it has taken me over a year to build my stockhatch and save enough money to compete next year , then I find out that there r events in ireland and I for one wont be able to afford to take my family off 5 for a long weekend to ireland. Any more thoughts on the provisional calendar

[redtop raiders]

hi bobster,
i understand your concerns regarding the clubmans championship and the costs implicated with traveling to compete.
if you visit the Cramlington and district motor club website you will see we have a clubman rallycross championship of approximatley 8 rounds that will be contested at 3 venues, blyton, knockhill and one other which will be situated around the north east coast area.
depending on where you are we are trying to keep travel and entry costs to a minimum.


This is a champioship run by drivers for drivers

[daz2202]

Originally Posted by bobster55

Just picked up calendar for btrda for next yr: april1 - blyton
June 3/4 - nutts corner
Aug 4 - lydden
Sept 16 - blyton
Oct 21 - lydden
Also 3 tba at knockhill, pembrey and blyton
It states that this is a clubmans championship for the working family however it has taken me over a year to build my stockhatch and save enough money to compete next year , then I find out that there r events in ireland and I for one wont be able to afford to take my family off 5 for a long weekend to ireland. Any more thoughts on the provisional calendar

Take the ireland event as your dropped round, you will find that most of us stockhatch drivers do due to the cost. Hopefully if a pembrey event joins the calander then it wont be a bad year. At least we wont be at blyton for every round next year ! (and 2 Lydden... superb)

Daz

[bobster55]

Thats what I will be doing daz but if most competitors drop ireland whats the point in them even having an event over there

[AlamakiRX]

Originally Posted by bobster55

Thats what I will be doing daz but if most competitors drop ireland whats the point in them even having an event over there

Drivers who want to compete for a championship will need to go to Nutts Corner anyway as it is only 1 dropped score and Nutts is a double header.

Drivers will have to choose to drop another round or drop a bad result.

Interesting calender, obviously the 3 tba dates are the 3 british event that the btrda will be joining onto, Knockhill, Blyton night race and Pembrey.

Good to see Lydden twice and less events at Blyton! Wonder if either of those 2 lydden events is a brc event as they normally happen in May and August B/H when the ERC is April, maybe BTRDA will have 2 seperate events at this track?

No Mallory for 2012? and no Croft for btrda for 2012??

Any news on the 2 new stockhatch classes to be introduced for 2012?? for BTRDA champ?

[bobster55]

The stockhatch classes r 8v and 16v as before also new 1500 td class

[AlamakiRX]

Originally Posted by bobster55

The stockhatch classes r 8v and 16v as before also new 1500 td class

Yeh heard about a new 1500TD class, Polo springs to mind! mind you im sure there is a long list of cars which can be used!

Does that mean there are now 2 class championships within stockhatch like it used to be, 8v and 16v?? But run together during the day etc.

[AlamakiRX]

For all those who didn't get this:

Clubmans Rallycross 2012

For 2012 there will be one Clubmans Rallycross Championship co-promoted and managed by the MDA and BTRDA . The championship will Visit Blyton, Lydden Hill, Pembrey, Knockhill and for the first time Nutts Corner. A mix of events the majority of them being stand alone events with support races from other categories but also the opportunity to be part of a new Motorsport festival, as well as supporting the MSA Rallycross Championship at certain events.

With classes for all 2wd Rallycross vehicles, as well as an opportunity for Rallycars to support at events.

Entry Fees

Entry Fees will be realistic, this is a clubman’s championship for the working family and we appreciate that money is tight. The championship is run by volunteers who don’t gain financially. There are currently plans in place for subsidised Ferries to Nutts Corner In June.

Classes

Super Modified – Upto 1600cc, 1601cc - 2100cc, 2101cc and over - No Vehicle age restriction and Generous Weight Limit

Modified 2000 - No changes,

Team Geriatric with Lucas Oils Stock Hatch – No Vehicle age restriction 1600cc 8v & 16v and new for 2011 1.5TD

Edwardes Bros Minicross

Edwardes Bros BMW Mini

Junior Rallycross – All Junior Rallycross Vehicles

The Benefit of Clubmans Rallycross is that Generally Racing seats don’t have to be homologated and the rules regarding safety wear are looser, no HANS device required, Proban Race suits are adequate etc.

Provisional Calendar

We are still working on a Calendar but can safely announce the Below the Championship will be 9 rounds of which 7 rounds to count, with again the Final Round counting for double scores.

Pre Season Test Day March 11th @ Blyton Park - Open to all Rallycross Vehicles

April 1st @ Blyton Park

June 3rd @ Nutts Corner (Silver Jubilee Weekend) - Celtic Challenge

June 4th @ Nutts Corner (Silver Jubilee Weekend) - Celtic Challenge

August 4th @ Lydden

September 16th @ Blyton Park

October 21st @ Lydden Hill

VENUES WITH DATES TO BE CONFIRMED
1 x Knockhill - Celtic Challenge - BRC
1 x Pembrey - Celtic Challenge -BRC
1 x Blyton - BRC (Night race)

As well as the traditional Dutch Mini Weekend in July

What does this mean to the competitor; well it means one registration fee - one championship. Racing against all the people on track, no confusion on who is registered.

[bobster55]

With the brc calendar now confirmed and with the night race ar knockhill! Any signs of a confirmed clubmans calendar?