Group A Rover SD1/Vitesse Rally History (sep from main thread)

[KA]

Just to clarify the rally cars a little- Computervision sponorship only appeared in 85- the 1984 cars were plain white, sometimes with Daily Mirror & Unipart backing

From a pic in an Esso advert in the 85 TT programme, Tony Pond's Computervision car carried the registration 'B565AOX'. There's also a pic of a white(?) car registered 'A479WOE' in the same ad- Pond's 84 RAC car, which had the infamous accident on the first special stage was 'A478WOE'. I've no idea how many rally cars there were, or what the chassis numbers were- I think a second Computervision car appeared on occasion in 85, so there could have been quite a few cars involved over the few years the programme ran. Might be worth a separate thread on the rally/rallycross forum....

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yep, now i'm really worried!

My other thought based on reading your link is that the original Grp A rally cars might well have been the old Grp 1 racers uprated?!

Going from the number of different registration numbers (at least half-a-dozen so far) I've seen on photos, there seem to have been quite a few rallycars built (always assuming that 1 registration= 1 individual car...) but I suspect that maybe only the later Group A Vitesses from 1984/5 were TWR-built.
There also seem to have been a number of earlier 'Group 2' cars which may have been built inhouse by BL/Austin Rover. Whether any of these were new builds, or rebuilt from ex-racers, who knows?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by KA

Going from the number of different registration numbers (at least half-a-dozen so far) I've seen on photos, there seem to have been quite a few rallycars built (always assuming that 1 registration= 1 individual car...) but I suspect that maybe only the later Group A Vitesses from 1984/5 were TWR-built.
There also seem to have been a number of earlier 'Group 2' cars which may have been built inhouse by BL/Austin Rover. Whether any of these were new builds, or rebuilt from ex-racers, who knows?

Hi Guys, this is a very interesting thread, well done to everyone so far.

Not wishing to throw another spanner into the works on this one, but historically, rally car identities have often used a number of different chassis, even to the extent of tarmac & gravel specification cars. Obviously this can easily be done by the 'works' team who just have to make sure that more than one isn't seen in the same place at the same time! (Let's face it, usually chassis plates are just held on with pop rivets & number plates with self tappers!).
I also seem to remember that TWR were only responsible for the later rally car builds, weren't the original ones built by BL Competitions in Abingdon?

Anyway, please don't let me put you guys off, the information is fascinating.

[KA]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Hi Guys, this is a very interesting thread, well done to everyone so far.

Not wishing to throw another spanner into the works on this one, but historically, rally car identities have often used a number of different chassis, even to the extent of tarmac & gravel specification cars. Obviously this can easily be done by the 'works' team who just have to make sure that more than one isn't seen in the same place at the same time! (Let's face it, usually chassis plates are just held on with pop rivets & number plates with self tappers!).

Definitely- Going a bit off-topic, apparently the histories of some of the 60's works Minis are very convoluted because of the amount of re-shelling and swapping of identities that happened. It could be a bit of an urban myth, but I'm sure I've read somewhere that one works team in the 70's(?) once managed to apparently have the 'same' car competing on two different events at the same time thanks to some careless registration swapping....

I also seem to remember that TWR were only responsible for the later rally car builds, weren't the original ones built by BL Competitions in Abingdon?

.

Thanks- I thought that was the case, but wasn't too sure.

[glyn parham]

KA.

You're right about the registration numbers, it was Ford with the MkII Escort. "STW201R" (I think) won rallies in GB and Germany on the same weekend.

Therefore the same could/should apply to the Rovers, i.e. several shells and not so many registration numbers.

Glyn

[Anuauto]

One of the ex-works Group A rally cars went to Russell Gooding and I think carried the name of Catnic Steel Lintels (then his father's company?) that became part of the Westland Group at Yeovil.

[KA]

As far as I remember, Gooding did a programme of mainly European (ERC?) events in 86 with his Rover- think he tended to compete abroad a fair amount- (didn't he score a top 10 finish on the Portuguese WRC round in a Chevette HSR in the early 80s?)
Catnic Lintels definitely rings a bell as one of his sponsors, and as you suggested I'm sure it was the family business. Think the Rover also carried backing from one of the electrical goods companies- maybe Servis? There was an article in 'Retro Cars' magazine recently about 60's/70's rallycrosser Jeff Williamson which included a pic of the Gooding Rover- believe he owned it for a while after Gooding.

[Anuauto]

Servis Domestic Appliances on the Gooding car 1985 RAC Rally. Mike Stuart in Computervision colours same event. Pond 84 RAC was entered by Unipart. Another name that comes up is David Appleby in Vitesse on 86 RAC - he was out at Colerne last weekend in the Prodrive Aston Martin rally car - and was (is?) 6R4 preparation specialist so may have info on works Vitesses.

[KA]

I won't swear to this, but think Dave Appleby's Vitesse might have been an ex-Computervision car. I think one went to Scotland- the name Gordon Smith rings a vague bell?
The other well-known rally SD1s that come to mind from that period are Bob Fowden's car in Wales and Ken Wood's 'Golden Wonder' car in Scotland, but I think these were earlier Group 2(?) cars, rather than Group A Vitesses so maybe a bit outside the scope of this thread?- I've got a feeling Ken Wood's car might have been ex-works though? It would have presumably been sold on after he got his 6R4 in 1986

[Anuauto]

I have very few contemporary sources to refer to but from what I do have:
The 85 RAC Rally preview referred to "development work at TWR seeing a revitalised (rally) car for 85". IIRC all the rally cars were built by TWR (and Walkinshaw even drove one himself on one event - in Belgium?). The previous achilles heel of the rally cars had been the axle. Whether axle problems had been resolved by the 84 RAC was never proven as Pond crashed on the first stage (car entered by Unipart)!
Another Vitesse entry on the 84 RAC is Ron Sinclair (no works connection?)and I believe Mike Biss used another private one.
Russell Gooding's car in the few 85 photos I can trace carried A480WOE (continental events and the RAC) in Servis livery. Not sure whether this car was loaned or sold to him.
Mike Stuart's 85 car is refered to as being an "ex-rallysprint Vitesse acquired for 85". B565AOX on the 85 Manx carries his name but Ponds name on what appears to be the 85 Scottish. If Stuart'scar was not full works-run in 85, he was presumably in a full works car by the 85 RAC when Pond moved into the 6R4.
Pond 84 Manx car carries B564AOX and that reg no appears on the Smith/Ewing private entry on the 86 RAC.
Also on the 86 RAC, the Appleby car carries C600AHW (no idea whether this is ex-works or re-registered ex-works car).
The only other 85 RAC Rally Vitesse entry is Chris Tilley, carrying DRR300T (presumably no ex-works connection).
On 87 RAC, Vitesse entries are Gordon Smith and Nick Edmond.

[Anuauto]

Bob Fowden's car carried a Q plate (although that doesn't rule out use of an ex-works shell).

[GTRMagic]

Is This Ad an ex works SD1 rally car of note?

No price (of course) and Again from a different angle

[KA]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Is This Ad an ex works SD1 rally car of note?

No price (of course) and Again from a different angle

That 'Servis' colourscheme looks like the ex-Russell Gooding car discussed a couple of pages back- think it was one of the Rallysprint cars originally?

[MG Rover Sport]

I've only just discovered this fantastic thread, and I must admit it has taken me some time to read it all through - still haven't had the time to take it all in though!

I have quite a bit of information on the rally cars that might be of interest to this thread, and I am more than happy to contribute. However from memory, this is I understand it...

The three AXXXVUK cars were all built for the planned Paris Peking Rally, but onece that event was shelved, the cars went on to compete in the 1983 Trophée Jean François Piot in France, and the 1984 Austin Rover Rallysprint at Donington. Tom Walkinshaw even used '379' on the 1984 National Breakdown Rally - I think in Herbie Clips livery.

The three AXXXWOE cars were all built for the 1984 Austin Rover Rallysprint at Donington, and driven by the likes of Mansell, Mouton, Brundle, Duez, McRae, Rosberg, Eklund and Watson.

After the event '478' got crashed into the Longleat tree by Tony Pond on the 1984 Lombard RAC Rally, '479' was used by Mike Stuart during the 1985 British Open Rally Championship, and '480' by Russell Gooding on the 1985 FIA European Group A Challenge.

In 1985, there were three BXXXAOX Computervision sponsored cars, primarily for Tony Pond to use on the 1985 British Open Rally Championship, but there were also occasions when Marc Duez and Mike Stuart used them as well.

Another point of interest is that Tom Walkinshaw used a car on the 1983 Criterium Lucien Bianchi in Belgium. This car also went on to compete on the 1983 Rothmans Manx International Rally in Pond's hands. It was an ex-touring car, Reg Nº FJO 450Y - and still even had the single centre locking wheelnuts fitted!

[Hugh]

One of the SD1's ended up in rallying and was campaigned by Ken Wood in the Scottish Rally championship for about three years before he ended up with a Metro from the factory.

The car then passed to Duncan Jaffrey from Banchory who continued to compete in the Scottish Rally championship who shortened the shell to make it a bit more nimble.

The car had twin rear shock absorbers which made it a bit unusual, it was possibly originally built for Tony Pond to compete in the RAC rally.

I ended up with the block and the gearbox from the above car which are still in my possession.

Cheers

Hugh

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

I've only just discovered this fantastic thread, and I must admit it has taken me some time to read it all through - still haven't had the time to take it all in though!

I have quite a bit of information on the rally cars that might be of interest to this thread, and I am more than happy to contribute. However from memory, this is I understand it...

The three AXXXVUK cars were all built for the planned Paris Peking Rally, but onece that event was shelved, the cars went on to compete in the 1983 Trophée Jean François Piot in France, and the 1984 Austin Rover Rallysprint at Donington. Tom Walkinshaw even used '379' on the 1984 National Breakdown Rally - I think in Herbie Clips livery.

The three AXXXWOE cars were all built for the 1984 Austin Rover Rallysprint at Donington, and driven by the likes of Mansell, Mouton, Brundle, Duez, McRae, Rosberg, Eklund and Watson.

After the event '478' got crashed into the Longleat tree by Tony Pond on the 1984 Lombard RAC Rally, '479' was used by Mike Stuart during the 1985 British Open Rally Championship, and '480' by Russell Gooding on the 1985 FIA European Group A Challenge.

In 1985, there were three BXXXAOX Computervision sponsored cars, primarily for Tony Pond to use on the 1985 British Open Rally Championship, but there were also occasions when Marc Duez and Mike Stuart used them as well.

Another point of interest is that Tom Walkinshaw used a car on the 1983 Criterium Lucien Bianchi in Belgium. This car also went on to compete on the 1983 Rothmans Manx International Rally in Pond's hands. It was an ex-touring car, Reg Nº FJO 450Y - and still even had the single centre locking wheelnuts fitted!

Brilliant! The question of whether any of the race cars ever became rallycars was raised early in the thread as I remember- Hopefully Ken can fill in the chassis number of whichever racer became 'FJO450Y'.

Funnily enough, this week's 'Classic Car Weekly' paper has a couple of pages on the SD1 in motorsport, including pictures of Michele Mouton on a rallysprint and 'B565AOX' on what looks like the 85 RAC with Mike Stuart I think-Pond was giving the 6R4 it's WRC debut

[KA]

Originally Posted by Hugh

One of the SD1's ended up in rallying and was campaigned by Ken Wood in the Scottish Rally championship for about three years before he ended up with a Metro from the factory.

The car then passed to Duncan Jaffrey from Banchory who continued to compete in the Scottish Rally championship who shortened the shell to make it a bit more nimble.

The car had twin rear shock absorbers which made it a bit unusual, it was possibly originally built for Tony Pond to compete in the RAC rally.

I ended up with the block and the gearbox from the above car which are still in my possession.

Cheers

Hugh

Ken Wood's 'Golden Wonder' car? It appears on this clip from the 1984 Granite City, including an interview with Ken Wood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHQE_id5f4w

apparently built to Group 2 specification, not Group A- on carbs rather than the fuel injection of the Vitesse- could it have been an earlier pre-TWR car?

[KA]

Just found this article from 'Rally Sport' magazine in the early 80's- wonder if the Ken Wood car ('OOC272X' from what I can make out on the YouTube clip) was the early development car described in the article?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/william.../wildrover.htm

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Another point of interest is that Tom Walkinshaw used a car on the 1983 Criterium Lucien Bianchi in Belgium. This car also went on to compete on the 1983 Rothmans Manx International Rally in Pond's hands. It was an ex-touring car, Reg Nº FJO 450Y - and still even had the single centre locking wheelnuts fitted!

Just found this in a thread of photos of Belgian rallies on a French or Belgian forum- Walkinshaw & John Davenport in FJO450Y on the 83 Lucien Bianchi

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6826/rover8su.jpg

[MG Rover Sport]

Thanks for raising the subject of the Ken Wood Rover, Hugh.

It did indeed start life as a 3500 on carbs as it dates back to the 1980 Pace Petroleum Rallysprint at Esgair Daffyd in Wales, Reg Nº GJW584W I think. Driven by Tony Pond, this car must have been prepared at Abingdon as the BL Motorsport department didn't move to Cowley till 1981.

I understand that BL weren't too keen to see Ken Wood still rallying the Triumph TR7 V8 into the early 1980s, so they literally gave him the Rover 3500 for the 1982 season. Ken re-registered it OOC272X. I'm pretty sure it continued in 3500 configuration until being updated to Vitesse spec for the 1984 rally season.

KA - glad it's appreciated. You are quite right, whilst Pond was debuting the 6R4 on the 1985 RAC Rally, Mike Stuart was entrusted with the factory Rover as a way for Austin Rover Motorsport to thank him for the supporting role he played during the 1985 British Championship.

And yes KA, the early development rally Rover did become the Ken Wood car as you suggested, and that I have mentioned above. An interesting article - must try and find an original copy for the files.

And yes KA - top marks for a cracking find - that photo of Tom & John in Belgium. Note the single centre locking wheel nuts I mentioned earlier.

[MG Rover Sport]

Another thought...

Del Lines' Rover Vitesse rally car (Reg Nº A379VUK) was crashed into a tree at Longleat in 1986 - shown on a link somewhere during this thread as well!

That car was reshelled into an ex-Bastos touring car shell. It even had the full red / white Bastos stripes down the flanks, and has been rallied by Duncan Holder until 2004 in the same livery.

I also gather one of the 'WOE' 1984 Rallysprint cars, possibly '479' is actually in New Zealand at present as well.

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Thanks for raising the subject of the Ken Wood Rover, Hugh.

It did indeed start life as a 3500 on carbs as it dates back to the 1980 Pace Petroleum Rallysprint at Esgair Daffyd in Wales, Reg Nº GJW584W I think. Driven by Tony Pond, this car must have been prepared at Abingdon as the BL Motorsport department didn't move to Cowley till 1981.

I understand that BL weren't too keen to see Ken Wood still rallying the Triumph TR7 V8 into the early 1980s, so they literally gave him the Rover 3500 for the 1982 season. Ken re-registered it OOC272X. I'm pretty sure it continued in 3500 configuration until being updated to Vitesse spec for the 1984 rally season.

And yes KA, the early development rally Rover did become the Ken Wood car as you suggested, and that I have mentioned above. An interesting article - must try and find an original copy for the files..

Funnily enough, that was the next question I was going to throw out- I've got an old magazine article somewhere with a pic of 'GJW584W' at the Pace Rallysprint, and I was wondering how many of these early 3500 rallycars there were- I hadn't realised 'GJW' and 'OOC' were the same car...

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

And yes KA - top marks for a cracking find - that photo of Tom & John in Belgium. Note the single centre locking wheel nuts I mentioned earlier.

That turned up by pure fluke, thanks to Google image search- I was actually looking for a pic of the Golden Wonder car and spotted a pic of a Rover in colours I didn't recognise....

[MG Rover Sport]

KA - I've actually made an error in Post #276 above, as it was actually the 1982 Pace Petroleum Rallysprint, not the 1980 event! Please accept my apologies therefore.

Ken Wood acquired it in late 1982, and subsequently debuted it on the 1983 Ladbroke Snowman Rally on 12 February. The car was used throughout 1982 in Group 2 specification, before the bodywork / engine were upgraded to Series 2 SD1 / Vitesse specification for the 1984 season. The last event that Ken used the Rover was the 1985 Audi Sport National Rally - a week later and he won his first rally in the Golden Wonder 6R4.

Ken sold the Rover to Euan Pyper for the 1986 season. It is after that, that I think Duncan Jaffray acquired the car - see Hugh's Post #271.

[chrisgram]

Originally Posted by KA

Brilliant! The question of whether any of the race cars ever became rallycars was raised early in the thread as I remember- Hopefully Ken can fill in the chassis number of whichever racer became 'FJO450Y'.

Funnily enough, this week's 'Classic Car Weekly' paper has a couple of pages on the SD1 in motorsport, including pictures of Michele Mouton on a rallysprint and 'B565AOX' on what looks like the 85 RAC with Mike Stuart I think-Pond was giving the 6R4 it's WRC debut

I have found a photo of FJO450Y on a trailer in a very sad state. The LH rear, including axle have been ripped out. The Autosport article (15/9/83) comments;
'Hours after the accident that destroyed the first and only rallying Vitesse, one could have expected..... Instead, around the dinner table that night ideas were flashing about a suggested timetable for the prep of a new car in time for the Manx. Where they could find another shell.... The real problem was finding another shell...Surely it would not take too much to convert one of the Sanyo sponsored racers?. Jeff Allam would never know how lucky he was because there was one thing certain. The TWR equipe would be in Douglas, on time....

[MG Rover Sport]

A good find Chris - any chance you could scan it in and post it for us all to see?

I wonder if the 1983 Manx Rally Rover was indeed a converted Sanyo touring car then?

The 1983 Criterium Lucien Bianchi took place over the weekend of 2-4 September, and Tom Walkinshaw crashed the car whilst lying 8th Overall. The 1983 Manx Rally took place over the weekend of 15-17 September - a mere 2 weeks later! In reality, the quickest way to fulfil their commitments on the Isle of Man would therefore be to convert a touring car.

Unfortunately, the Manx outing only lasted till Stage 2 when the back axle broke.

All we need now is to find some photos from the 1983 Manx Rally....