James Toseland - a new rider?

[Knowlesy]

Have to say I'm well impressed with James Toseland so far this season.

In previous years I've always thought of him as a very good rider but not really able to live with the best guys consistently. His 2004 title, although deserved, was rather helped by everyone on the grid being as inconsistent as he was!

But four races in, two second places and two wins. That is mighty impressive stuff when you consider the guys he is beating. Any other season he'd have been third or fourth in these races, but he's lead the majority of all the races with a maturity and calm that I have only seen occcasionally from him.

He also seems to be using the first race experience to nail the second races very well indeed.

I'm just really pleased to see these performances and it just goes to show what confidence and hard work can do for a rider.

[SALEEN S7R]

Personally I think Toseland is riding now as well as he did back in 2004 and that is to say that he is the best rider out there. Now, like in 2004 certain riders arent being quite as consistent as Toesland. He may not be ultimately the fastest rider out there over a race distance but he is very consistant and that is what gives him a very good chance of winning the Championship this year I think.

[Dani Filth]

he was crap when he won the championship in 2004 .. but now he's much better

[SALEEN S7R]

He was crap when he won the World Championship, isnt that something of a contradiction? To win any kind of World Championship you have to be extremely good, sure the Championship may not have been at the same standard as it is now but he still had to beat the likes of Laconi and Haga which is never easy. IMO of course.

[Knowlesy]

Well, it was one of the worst title wins of all time it has to be said.

I mean, Laconi is a joke for a start. And Haga on a Ducati was not a great combo.

He pulled it off and credit to him (I was delighted), but he had at best an average year really. It might sound contradictory, but his only great performances were at Magny Cours!

And that's the point here - he has come on a long way!

[SALEEN S7R]

So everyone on the works bikes were crap and Toesland was average and therefore won the Championship? Not quite how I remember 2004 but I guess we all have differnt opinions.

[Knowlesy]

Everyone fell off every couple of races.

Had you had a Biaggi, a Bayliss, Haga on a Yam, or whoever then the picture would have been very different.

[SALEEN S7R]

In 2004 I would say the rider standard was as high as it is now, perhaps more so. Not only did we have the likes of Haslam, Chilli, Vermulen but you also had most of the current stars like Haga, Toesland, Corser and Laconi. WSBK lost much of its Championship status at the start of the 2005 season when it went to having spec tyres and allowing less modifcations to the bikes.

[Knowlesy]

Look at 2005 though. Toseland arguably had a slightly better year and yet where did he finish? 5th or 6th?

Once some good works teams returned and the likes of Vermeulen had a year under their belt he was nowhere, although admittedly there was a lack of team support for James.

My personal opinion is that James really started to mature last season. He was in a team that listened to him, his racing improved, he got quicker and he learned to be consistent.

Perhaps this season it can all come together for him. He has been far better than I have ever seen him, ever and his win today was his best by miles. This is a chance for a "proper" title win.

[SALEEN S7R]

To be honest Knowlesy I agree with your assesment of James's 2005 season. One of the main factors of him not being able to defend his 2004 title I beleive was the arrival of a couple of big manufacturer teams once again into the series, they moved the competition up a level once again and the privateers took a bit of time to get back up to that level. Now that they are though things are looking pretty good for James, my only concern however is that for whatever reason James seems to want to lead from the front a little too much and ultimately loses grip towards the end of the race and loses the lead, at least that has been the case in the first race of each weekend so far this year. In race 2 he seems to have refined the setup a little and can make the tyres last that little bit longer. If he can get a slightly better set up for race 1 I dont really see anyone being able to stop him, still 2nd place in race 1 at both weekends and a win in the 2nd races isnt a bad result.

[Knowlesy]

It's the stuff titles are built on.

[Hazza]

Was 2004 the year everyone was riding Ducatis? I can't remember.

[Knowlesy]

Yes, it was Ducati year.

I think Chili rode the old Duke as well, because he didn't get on with the 999.

[chunder]

Plus people tend to forget he was the poor relation in the team aswell, Tardozzi was in love with Laconi and his reaction when JT won the title was extraordinary, almost like "well that it then, we have to keep him for anotehr year!"

I have to admit though that JT has reallly come of age this year and look finally like the lad I saw winning Supersport races in the UK. His confidence is sky high, his team mate is no threat at all and the team are totaly with him, a sitution he hasnt ever been in before to my mind.
Makes a big difference

[Knowlesy]

Yeah, Tardozzi's behaviour was just amazing. I still have that race on DVD and it just makes me laugh. There are shots of Tardozzi throughout the races in a rage as Toseland held off Laconi!

[BootsOntheSide]

Other than the internal problems in the team, Toseland had no serious rivals in 2004. Everybody was either on uncompetitive bikes (Corser and Chili), new to the series (Vermeulen), or on a bike which didn't fully suit them (Haga). His riding in 2005 was probably better than the year before, even though he didn't challenge for the title.

2007's a different story so far. In a basically private team he's beating Bayliss, Haga, Corser and Biaggi consistently. He's not making mistakes, his overtaking has been precise, and he's exuding confidence. Great stuff all round.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

2007's a different story so far. In a basically private team he's beating Bayliss, Haga, Corser and Biaggi consistently. He's not making mistakes, his overtaking has been precise, and he's exuding confidence. Great stuff all round.

Well Ducati are really the only factory team. But we're finally seeing the other manufacturers trickle down some more support for the likes of Ten Kate, Alstare, etc. I wasn't watching prior to late 2005, so I don't have all the background you guys have. But I think Toseland has looked the business so far. However, certainly the Ten Kate boys have sorted the electronics out on the bike over what they had in 2006. All in all, I'd say he's a strong title contender.

[chunder]

Actually you are wrong there, althought teh Yamaha and Suzuki teams are run through importers, their bikes are full on factory spec.
The Suzuki bikes are the same as teh Yosh bikes, often better for power and the Yams use only kit parts I think.
Ten Kate do use an HRC kit I think but the bikes are tuned and engines built by Ten Kate who actually can probly do a better job anyway!

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by chunder

Actually you are wrong there, althought teh Yamaha and Suzuki teams are run through importers, their bikes are full on factory spec.
The Suzuki bikes are the same as teh Yosh bikes, often better for power and the Yams use only kit parts I think.
Ten Kate do use an HRC kit I think but the bikes are tuned and engines built by Ten Kate who actually can probly do a better job anyway!

Ok, sorry about missing the details. My point was that the other teams are not a true factory operation like the Ducati team.

[racer69]

Not many ever have been true 'factory efforts' in World Superbike, for example;

The Alstare Corona Suzuki team has been running the works Suzuki's since 1999 (except for 2004)

Yamaha Motor Italia (formely Belgarda) ran the works Yamaha's in the late-1990's and 2000, before returning in 2005

[BootsOntheSide]

What about Fuchs Kawasaki - wasn't that largely the same team that now runs Kawasaki's MotoGP effort? Bimota in 2000 with Gobert?

I think you're mostly right though, the true 'factory' teams used to appear at Sugo and usually demolish their works riders (Kitagawa and Ryo compared to Whitham and Goddard in 1998 comes to mind).

[Hazza]

Castrol Honda didn't really have the full HRC support. In 2002 they didn't get the good bits untill HRC were done with the 8hr, and they said, hey here is a bunch of Go Fast bits, take 'em, we don't need them...anymore.

[gomick]

james has been riding great - reckon ten kate have been building up to a wsbk title each year since they got involved with vermuelen.... james could well be the man to give them the #1 plate they have been working hard for!
bring on donington - troy bayliss is very fast there

[ATF]

I agree about 2004 being a bad year to win the championship, similar to Hodgson in 2003 - just because of a lack of competition.

Laconi was quicker over most of the year but threw it down more than i can remember!! Ten Kate had only just brought the new Honda in and Renegade did a solid job but you could never see them beating the factory team to the title!

With Corser, Haga, Bayliss and Biaggi all on top bikes, JT has done an outstanding job so far this year. Sorry to sound like a broken record, here's hoping he can claim a 2nd world title!

[DavidStHubbins]

If he wins this year, it'll almost be like his first title, because as a lot of you have already said, WSBK was a bit rubbish for a few years, but now it is very healthy.

JT is also young enough to cross over to Motogp - providing he can get his mitts on a good enough bike. With Loris, Checa, Barros, Edwards, all reaching the end of the conveyer belt, he has a chance of a decent bike. Would be good to see him on the Repsol though. Move over, Hayden