John Webb's race promotions!

[Chris Townsend]

I should add, in all seriousness, that there really was a John Webb promoted F3 race - at Mallory I think, early 1969 - where the driver had to pit, a mechanic then removed one wheel, ran round the car with it - not necessarily widdershins (that's anti-clockwise Drifty) - and replaced it. All in the interests of spectacle...

Chris

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

I should add, in all seriousness, that there really was a John Webb promoted F3 race - at Mallory I think, early 1969 - where the driver had to pit, a mechanic then removed one wheel, ran round the car with it - not necessarily widdershins (that's anti-clockwise Drifty) - and replaced it. All in the interests of spectacle...

Chris

Which just goes to prove not all John Webb's ideas were that good!

[driftwood]

At least he gave it his best shot
from memory
he created Sports 200 very popular
Formula Forward and Fomula First- served a purpose and hey where replaced by FVJ & FVL with manufacturer support that he didnt have so his series died off after 3 years
Multi sports Hmmm
Thundersports- great cars and racing worked for 7 years
Indylantic Shellsport Group 8/Aurora sereis had their rmoments and gave this site plenty to waffle about
he worked for the circuit owner then he owned the circuit so he put his $$ where his mouth was

Webby certainly did his best to provide entertainment
was he instrumental in the radio 1 race days? May sound naff but they had many people come to see the DJ`s race and then the pop stars would come and the crowds swell it was all good PR for Brands/ motor sport in general
So these may be the good ideas but there are always a few bum ideas

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

At least he gave it his best shot
from memory
he created Sports 200 very popular
Formula Forward and Fomula First- served a purpose and hey where replaced by FVJ & FVL with manufacturer support that he didnt have so his series died off after 3 years
Multi sports Hmmm
Thundersports- great cars and racing worked for 7 years
Indylantic Shellsport Group 8/Aurora sereis had their rmoments and gave this site plenty to waffle about
he worked for the circuit owner then he owned the circuit so he put his $$ where his mouth was

Webby certainly did his best to provide entertainment
was he instrumental in the radio 1 race days? May sound naff but they had many people come to see the DJ`s race and then the pop stars would come and the crowds swell it was all good PR for Brands/ motor sport in general
So these may be the good ideas but there are always a few bum ideas

I have to say I though Formula First was a complete disaster. Unstable cars that seemed to crash when driven in a straight line plus drivers who thought demolition derbys were motor sport!

Multi Sports looked OK until you checked the performance of the cars - they were rubbish. I was recently asked by someone if I though that a second-hand Multi Sport was a good buy, I suggested that they should just say Good Bye and forget it!

One of his better ideas that worked well at Oulton Park was the SUN Raceday. The daily newspaper of the same name gave away vouchers each day for a week and you could exchange these for admission! It certainly boosted the gate at these events.

[driftwood]

One of his better ideas that worked well at Oulton Park was the SUN Raceday. The daily newspaper of the same name gave away vouchers each day for a week and you could exchange these for admission! It certainly boosted the gate at these events.
Forgot that was his idea at Brands we had la lal numbers turn up u had to leave paddock 2 races earlier to get thru the crowds-- should bring this type of day back or even £1 entyr fee to all races then the circuits can boas they had 5-15000 people turn up maybe earn more money at a quid than robbing the spectator of £15k and having 200 there
Webbs ideas for F 1st & multi sports were cost effective motorsport but yes they were a bit "pony" but they did bring in some people to racing that may not have normally raced cars

[Davhut]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

widdershins (that's anti-clockwise Drifty) Chris

Is there some 300 year old Englishman in chains in some dungeon over there who invents these words!

Fascinating language.

[Thundersports]

Drifty Formula Vauxhall Lotus was running before Formula Forward the idea behind Forward and First was a kind of replica FF1600/FF2000 but on a smaller budget. The prize money for Forward was very generous I seem to remember Eugene O'Brien picking up 40k for 5 poles or wins in a row. The "SUN free day" was a superb concept and they always had a F1 team there to wow the crowds at lunch time (i'll tell you all a very funny story involving Lotus one day).
Didn't Webby conceive Formula Talbot and P100 pick up trucks? Sorry to bring "them" up! THUNDERSPORTS now there was a great idea!!! Not many peaple realise but from his restaurant near Alicante he still does some consultantsy for a certain J Palmer..............

[Thundersports]

OH forgot about the tractor race at either the 1978 or 1980 GP and the chance to drive a "Brands Hatch Hovercraft"! (Will anyone here admit to doing that)?
Halcyon days...................

[Andrew Kitson]

One of his best ideas was Formula 5000 was it not, from the American Formula A? If so thanks John, a fantastic spectacle. His Grands Prix at Brands had far more atmosphere than any Silverstone race IMO - great supporting races and airshows. Remember Concorde and the Vulcan?

[Alan Raine]

I did the Sun day at Brands. A massive crowd with all the cars lined up on the grid over lunch and the punters allowed to walk around and chat to everyone. If I remember rightly it still made money as the shops and food outlets did good business. It was certainly good to race infront of a big crowd for a change.

Formula First was a good idea, but the cars were too flimsy. It was promoted as the new Formula Ford but after a couple of reasonable years, with lots of bent cars, lost it's appeal.

One the failures - doe's anyone remember Formula Talbot?

[Stephen Green]

I think we forget that shortly after some of the series were released, well within 3 years anyway, we had the global recession which meant motorsport and other expensive hobbies suffered greatly.

Webby also introduced the Radio 1 days out, where we saw DJ's racing in the school cars (then Ford Escorts and later Fiesta XR2's I seem to remember). SkyTrack where there was track action as well as airshows (before the CAA decided aircraft could not display over public areas). As mentioned above, the SUN £1 race days and latterly the Evening Standard race days.

All in all some brilliant ideas but not necessarily ones that would work in todays market.

I remember marshalling the very first season of Formula First with I think every race won by one Oliver Gavin?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

One of his best ideas was Formula 5000 was it not, from the American Formula A? If so thanks John, a fantastic spectacle. His Grands Prix at Brands had far more atmosphere than any Silverstone race IMO - great supporting races and airshows. Remember Concorde and the Vulcan?

Yes, John Webb had some great promotional ideas. I certainly do remember Concorde and the Vulcan at the GP. We were right at the back of the small Paddock grandstand, we were gobsmacked by the Vulcan as it looked like it was below us as it passed over the pits, then it stood on it's tail and went straight up directly above us. The most amazing thing was that Concorde did exactly the same thing, only much much noiser (and full of paying passengers)!

Formula Talbot? Yes I remember that too, a bit of a lame duck at the time if I remember correctly, however, wasn't he well ahead of his time with that one too, didn't they run on some sort of Bio Fuel? You know, like that amazing new idea they've just had for Formula Ford...

[Andrew Kitson]

He also brought in that other fantastic 1970s class - Formula Atlantic and had a hand in the introduction of Formula Ford. A huge player in the formation of the British racing industry.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

Formula First was a good idea, but the cars were too flimsy. It was promoted as the new Formula Ford but after a couple of reasonable years, with lots of bent cars, lost it's appeal.

One the failures - doe's anyone remember Formula Talbot?

Formula First cars were not only flimsy they handled badly. This caused many multiple shunts, I remember one Oulton Park race that was abandonded after three attempts to get the cars round the first lap!

As for Formula Talbot, I nearly bought an ex-Talbot car - a Sparton. It was subsequently converted to FF2000 and had a very hard life in speed events. The problem with the Talbot races were that there were too few starters and too many retirements! On more than one occasion the cars were merged with another equally poorly supported race which did nothing to bring people into the class. Mind you using none pump fuel was way ahead of his time! Maybe a single seater formula for Bio-Diesels would now be in order?

[Andrew Kitson]

One of his biggest failures was surely Formula Turbo Ford - anybody remember that? A Reynard chassis was used for testing and the launch and the thinking was at the time all the GP cars were turbo so surely the way to go? Never got off the ground.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Formula First cars were not only flimsy they handled badly. This caused many multiple shunts, I remember one Oulton Park race that was abandonded after three attempts to get the cars round the first lap!

The first of the stoppages was partly due to the midfield and cars at the back not looking where they were going. 2 cars spun at Old Hall and the rest just piled in making no attempt to slow down, even though there was dust and debris flying everywhere - unbelievable!

The bottom wishbone rod ends on a Formula First were just bolted to the side of one of the chassis uprights and had a habit of punching into the footwell on impact. Not good.

I had totally forgotten about Turbo Ford.

Going back to an earlier point. Perhaps there is scope for allowing promotional free or cheap entry into circuits. There were very few spectators at the odd meeting I went to last year.

[Stephen Green]

JP argues that by doing the free or £1 days he has to employ a huge number of extra staff to man the gates, car parks, litter patrol etc etc, and the income doesn't cover the extra expense. I can see his arguement, especially in the days of increased security and the dreaded health and safety guys.

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

One of his biggest failures was surely Formula Turbo Ford - anybody remember that? A Reynard chassis was used for testing and the launch and the thinking was at the time all the GP cars were turbo so surely the way to go? Never got off the ground.

Yeah I do Andrew. Over the winter 84-85 IIRC, and as you say only the 1converted FF2000 Reynard was ever made, no races ever took place. Even at the time, this was deemed by the weeklies as more a 'Webby chasing a fad' idea, rather than a serious thing.

Overall though, I agree, he was very much a force for good in UK racing generally.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

JP argues that by doing the free or £1 days he has to employ a huge number of extra staff to man the gates, car parks, litter patrol etc etc, and the income doesn't cover the extra expense. I can see his arguement, especially in the days of increased security and the dreaded health and safety guys.

I would have though JP is a shrewd enough cookie to suggest that the company underwriting the Voucher Scheme would also underwrite the wages of the extra staff!

I do know that at some of the venues that the British Sprint Championship go to the circuit management do not man the gates as the income would not pay the wages of the staff involved. I also found it comical that they were charging £12.00 at Snetterton when a £5.00 entry fee would have probably encouraged a lot more spectators and could have seen more money taken overall.

[Thundersports]

There are a few other hidden "horrors" I could mention which never got off the ground as a formula I remember from my days involved with Brands.

[driftwood]

was it Webb that thought of caravan racing?

If JP gave free entrance to his meetings he would get fuller grandstands then he could then step up and charge £1 and then he would get his money from 5000 spectators rather than £12 from 200
the shop and kiosk owners must struggle to sell their goods to a meagre following and get 1 or 2 good days with BTCC and superbikes

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

was it Webb that thought of caravan racing?

If JP gave free entrance to his meetings he would get fuller grandstands then he could then step up and charge £1 and then he would get his money from 5000 spectators rather than £12 from 200
the shop and kiosk owners must struggle to sell their goods to a meagre following and get 1 or 2 good days with BTCC and superbikes

I think some of what you say is correct Drifty!

I always thought that the best way to make money out of motor racing was to have low entrance fees to get the punters in. Then the shops & resturants will be busy and the stall holders who pay you for the privilege of just being there will also have a good day.

In this day and age I would have thought that £10.00 per car would be in order, I know that when Oulton Park used this device there were a lot of enthusiasts who met up outside the circuit then drove in crammed into one car!

I also think Alan Raine's earlier point about all the cars being parked up on the track during the lunch break was a good idea but how about free access to the paddock, that would be even better!

There is a lot that John Webb should be praised for and that is still with us. I for one believe that British motor racing would have been a much duller sport but for his influence.

[driftwood]

I always thought that the best way to make money out of motor racing was to have low entrance fees to get the punters in. i fully agree wallmart approach pile em high sell em cheap more bums on seats means more $$ spent inside the track £1 at the door will fill the place faster than £12 at the door
Then the shops & resturants will be busy and the stall holders who pay you for the privilege of just being there will also have a good day.fully agree im sure more stall holders will turn up ie car boot sale/ sunday market is possible too!!

In this day and age I would have thought that £10.00 per car would be in order, I know that when Oulton Park used this device there were a lot of enthusiasts who met up outside the circuit then drove in crammed into one car!i have LWB merc van !!

I also think Alan Raine's earlier point about all the cars being parked up on the track during the lunch break was a good idea we did that once real pain in the butt but i see where yr coming from but how about free access to the paddock, most races are free now even BH grandstands i use the "dont look em in the eye" approach keep walking & wait till yr yanked back!! works well except at BIG meetingsthat would be even better!

There is a lot that John Webb should be praised for and that is still with us. I for one believe that British motor racing would have been a much duller sport but for his influence.never a truer word said maybe JP should consult with him over some ideas to fill the place up a racer gets a bum deal 10 laps £250 given 4 tickets to race in front of 100 people so how can u justify race budget to a sponsor

[Lightning Bug]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

I have to say I though Formula First was a complete disaster. Unstable cars that seemed to crash when driven in a straight line plus drivers who thought demolition derbys were motor sport!

True, there were a lot of crashers in Formula First, but look at the drivers who got their first taste of car racing in it, some of whom may never have otherwise had the opportunity:

Kelvin Burt, Warren Hughes, Oliver Gavin, Guy Smith, Bobby Verdon-Roe, Scott Lakin, Thomas Erdos, Robbie Kerr, Danny Watts

Plus many others who were pretty good but never went much further as drivers.

By the way, Formula Forward was launched AFTER Vauxhall Lotus (first race 1989 for Forward; 1988 for Vauxhall Lotus). I think what really killed it was Formula Renault (which exploded in popularity in 1990), as well as the fact that there was a spate of accidents in which drivers broke their legs.

[Stephen Green]

I think you will find that JP has/does consult with John Webb.