"stand down" on post - what does it mean?

[Bodysnatcher]

Looking forward to the season ahead, I looked up a timetable for the first meeting down at Brands Hatch

http://www.lotrdc.com/Lotus_Brands_Hatch_Celebration

and my heart sank a little...

Lunch & Lotus Demos - 13:17pm
T Cars Race - 14:05pm

If lunch starts on time and even getting back only 10mins before the first race after lunch, thats 38 minutes.
30 minutes for a lunch break I can handle.
demos at lunch time......another thing altogether

Great for the spectators, but as happened a few times last year, not so good for marshals if we have the infamous "stand down on post" order.

What are the implications of "stand down on post"?

Are we providing safety cover?
I guess we are, since who would stand idly by if a demo car required assistance?

Is the Observer still responsible?
Or can I relax?, maybe leave the post in order to answer the call of nature

What is a safe manning level?
given that we may be starting with a number only marginally greater than one.

The reply I got to these sort of questions was "I leave it to you with your years of experience to decide how best to deal with it"

buck passing at it's finest
(or joined up thinking to invoke one of the buzz-words favoured)

Well, given my years of experience and if (for example) the driver was an ex F1 and Indy car champion driving in a supposedly non-competitive manner with the circuit to himself.

I'd say we can all leave the post and go for a burger and chips.

But i know that's not what I'm meant to say and I know whose arse would be the first to get a kicking if it went tits-up.

What does the board think?

Personally I'd rather not hear this phrase.
I'm on duty or off
thats it

I know Dutchchap had a big problem with this approach to lunch break activities.

[Stephen Green]

My understanding of the term is that we are not providing cover during that period. I believe it is done so that there are no marshals crossing the track while demonstrations etc are in progress and also to make sure marshals are back at their posts in plenty of time before racing begins.

I have always taken it to mean that you can nip to the toilet, or if you feel adventurous go and buy a burger.

I'm guessing they are trying to make the meeting run as smoothly as possible and trying to eliminate any human snags?

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

My understanding of the term is that we are not providing cover during that period. .........

I'm guessing they are trying to make the meeting run as smoothly as possible and trying to eliminate any human snags?

You the only one brave enough to try a reply after 50 views of this subject Stephen? Good on you.

If as you think, we're not providing cover for demos, why are the words "on post" tacked on?

To make things run as smoothly as possible, I would prefer unambiguous wording. Even better, just tell me that I can go for lunch and leave any required intervention to the rescue crew.
Who might be on better conditions of service than me.
Or might not, who knows?

[Aardvaark]

It's the "on post" bit that's the catch isn't it? If it means "go ahead and leave the post if you feel like it for any reason", then why are the words there? Because it appears to mean "stay on post" - which kind of eliminates any movement off post! So why can't they be honest and say what they really mean - "if anything happens please deal with it, we are relying on you, and no, you're not getting a break". So meetings like that I politely decline - it's my option as a volunteer.

[SouthportFC Fan]

If you're stood down on post, but you respond to a 'display' incident and you are, heaven forbid, injured, are you covered by MSA insurance ?

My interpretation of 'standing down on post' is that, if you need to leave it, then ask the observer first, if they've not left already !! If it's OK by them, then it's OK to leave the post.

[The Fat Clerk]

On the days when I'm Observing (not many I know), I'm happy to let my team go, along as this doesn't involve them crossing the track.

[Novice]

At other times when say a car is doing 3 laps because they missed practice we are told to be aware that there is track activity, we are not told to stand down on post. This brings a sinister meaning to the stand down on post comment as we are being told that we cannot leave post, even though half the crowd have gone down to the pitlane walkabout by crossing the track before Ex f1 and Indy Car champ does his bit.

[Peter Harding]

My understanding of the "on post" bit is that race control can phone and everyone can be immediately on duty. It helps if it's accompanied with a bit of info like "we don't expect to start for at least nn minutes as this allows a loo break but...
IT'S NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR A LUNCH BREAK.
If we are expected to forgo the lunch break it should be handled very carefully by race control to ensure we get a reasonable deal.

i e . got enough marshals to rotate off duty periods/In bad weather it might be better to end earlier/...

[rbs]

I thought it was FIA speak for not letting us into the Paddock or Pit Lane.

[cowchap]

Not sure what or means but it was very annoying to be 'stood down on post' during the DTM taxi rides last year,had to leave a blissful half hour in the shade to roast for 45 minutes in the full glare of the sun-seemed a bit silly-great meeting though,gutted I cant do it this year especially as the sidecars are there too!

[PVDA]

What is this LUNCH BREAK thing you speak of

[PapaJuliet]

Originally Posted by PVDA

What is this LUNCH BREAK thing you speak of

See my sig.

PJ

[racerkeke]

If that's the case, PapaJuliet, you'll love Vegas!

Time-certain schedule, at least an hour for catered lunch each day...

keke

[archaic gold]

I am sure that you regular Brands guys and girls will remember (it was only two years ago!!); I think at the CSMA Classis Meeting when two Classic Lotus F1s had a togetherness at the Ambulance Gate (Pots 2&3), when the one on the right turned into the open gateway, and the one on the left continued down Paddock Hill. Neither got very far, and this was during the official lunch-break. Needless to say there were many of us still about to assist!!!

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

I am sure that you regular Brands guys and girls will remember (it was only two years ago!!); I think at the CSMA Classis Meeting when two Classic Lotus F1s had a togetherness at the Ambulance Gate (Pots 2&3), when the one on the right turned into the open gateway, and the one on the left continued down Paddock Hill. Neither got very far, and this was during the official lunch-break. Needless to say there were many of us still about to assist!!!

Yep, was just a spectator then - Have a nice picture of the marshals clearing up the mess - I'll dig it out...

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by mini1400

Yep, was just a spectator then - Have a nice picture of the marshals clearing up the mess - I'll dig it out...

OK pics are up on my site starting with....

[flagwaver]

As a rescue bod I have big problems with "stand downs" because they usually expect the rescue unit(s) be available to attend any incidents. When we are expected to go to the toilet etc I do not know.

[blackx]

Originally Posted by flagwaver

As a rescue bod I have big problems with "stand downs" because they usually expect the rescue unit(s) be available to attend any incidents. When we are expected to go to the toilet etc I do not know.

We get the same on hillclimbs...

They can allow marshals on post time to stand down in rotation so as keeping at least someone on post but if the unit is on minimum crew (2 for a speed event) how do we answer the call of nature,get food etc

[garybirch]

I would suggest that 'standing down on post' would be the same as being in between races/qualies. That quieter bit when the chequered has gone out, all cars are in the pits and we're waiting for the next on track activity.

Year before last at Castle Combe we had an mg (or something of that size and shape) roll onto it's roof while being towed by the recovery vehicle. We were all stood down, some lying down when we hear the truck coming followed by an almighty crash. I stand up to see the car on it's roof beside the truck. It was all to do with the strap being corner to oposite corner and on the roof bar, the car pulling out slightly so the driver wasn;t getting a face full oif exhausts and the cors snapping taught.

(On another note the driver did have his helmet on and was strapped in - something I insist all towed vehicle drivers to do now).

However it happened, we were I guess, 'stood down on post', but able to drop the sarnies and tea and react quickly.
Perhaps this is what is meant by 'stood down on post'?

Ultimately I suggest if anyone is unsure on post, the observer should ring RC and ask! It may mean different things on different days at different tracks!!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by garybirch

I would suggest that 'standing down on post' would be the same as being in between races/qualies. That quieter bit when the chequered has gone out, all cars are in the pits and we're waiting for the next on track activity.

Year before last at Castle Combe we had an mg (or something of that size and shape) roll onto it's roof while being towed by the recovery vehicle. We were all stood down, some lying down when we hear the truck coming followed by an almighty crash. I stand up to see the car on it's roof beside the truck. It was all to do with the strap being corner to oposite corner and on the roof bar, the car pulling out slightly so the driver wasn;t getting a face full oif exhausts and the cors snapping taught.

(On another note the driver did have his helmet on and was strapped in - something I insist all towed vehicle drivers to do now).

However it happened, we were I guess, 'stood down on post', but able to drop the sarnies and tea and react quickly.
Perhaps this is what is meant by 'stood down on post'?

Ultimately I suggest if anyone is unsure on post, the observer should ring RC and ask! It may mean different things on different days at different tracks!!

I think everyone should take a mental note of what Standing Down means....it can mean, hey, I'm off to the bog and I CANNOT be relied upon to return any time soon (that is, out of the picture until returns).

As for "relaxing" whilst recoveries and entertainment is on....I believe there is no such thing....you are stood down from race duties but not from your other duties as a provider of warning (eyes and ears, Flags and Comms to Race Control) and assistance on track (if required)....2c

[Nighthawk]

Remember the incident well and we were stood down on post.

[Woolley]

This is a very good question, and one that I confess I've never quite thought about in such detail. I find myself thinking from the above that it's a phrase along the lines of smart-casual dress. Is that tidy casual? Smart without a tie?

So we're either stood down (inactive) or we're not (required to respond if necessary). If we're required on post, then we're active. It's not, apparently the same thing as 'don't go too far because it's only a short break (stood down).

It also worries me that we're then dealing with a situation where the drivers may not be aware of what's required them as racing drivers are (yes, I know some will disagree with that, but there's a difference between the few who know what to do for a flag or track situation and don't and a bunch who don't have clue because they weren't expected to know). For that reason, and because I like the opportunity of a break, I'm not happy about cavalcades or similar requiring marshalling. I separate that from 'demonstrations' because they should be part of the meeting, scheduled and licenced. Some hillclimbs, for instance, include demonstration runs because of timing/class issues, but are actually run alongside the competition. I guess I'd draw the line at whether the run is for the benefit of the crowd or the participant. If it's the primarily the former (and at potentially competitive speeds) it should be marshalled as normal and if the latter other arrangements should be made while we go and have lunch.