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9 Apr 2009, 20:01 (Ref:2437694) | #76 | ||
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Hood emblem?
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9 Apr 2009, 22:28 (Ref:2437764) | #77 | |
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You know Huge, after posting all these years on various common forums, I don't think I ever realized you lived so close, lol...
pit |
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9 Apr 2009, 22:32 (Ref:2437767) | #78 | ||
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Over in Orlando area aren't you?
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9 Apr 2009, 23:01 (Ref:2437780) | #79 | |||
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DK |
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9 Apr 2009, 23:11 (Ref:2437783) | #80 | ||
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Small, light, powerful sportscars are the future, not gas guzzelling, lumbering dinosaurs. The top GT class must have a place for the most popular, mainstream, manufacturer models, not least because these manufacturer's can fund and support top level GT racing, unlike the Pagani's, Koenigseggs and Matech's of this world. |
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9 Apr 2009, 23:34 (Ref:2437792) | #81 | |||
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The GT Open series that exists at the moment gives some sort of indication as to what this approach might look like. For me it's about as exciting as watching paint dry. It amounts to nothing more than a Ferrari-Porsche challenge, with a few other oddball entrants and a smattering of GT3s. Yes the grids are thriving in that series, but that just means even more Ferraris and Porsches. The reason I want GT1 to continue in whatever form is simple - they are exciting to watch. Even if you have a poor race, you are still left with the enjoyment of watching the cars themselves. That has always been a key element for me. If you happen to get a good race, all the better. |
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10 Apr 2009, 00:28 (Ref:2437813) | #82 | |
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Interesting article: http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=19701
Nissan will support teams taking the car to Le Mans |
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10 Apr 2009, 00:36 (Ref:2437815) | #83 | |||
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"Like the GT500, the new Nissan GT-R GT1 puts its power down via a six-speed Ricardo racing transaxle but the similarities beyond that are limited. " |
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10 Apr 2009, 03:42 (Ref:2437845) | #84 | ||
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Dxk1, the Ferrari 250s and Porsche 911s were generally much lighter (2,300-2,600lb vs. ~3,000+lb), better balanced, and better suited to road racing. They also tended to have very good reliability. The Shelby Daytona Coupe was better on weight than the other big American competitors, but still really needed a power circuits to give its best.
JAG, the clinical precision of an F430 isn't as outwardly awe-inspiring or exotic as those "gas-guzzling dinosaurs" you mentioned. And for a premier class, prototype or GT, you NEED spectacular machinery, and F430s and 911s don't provide those sights, sounds, or belching flames. Also, at a point, popular becomes mundane to some extent. Not to mention, this GT1 class is to be the top class in FIA GT, so they need some real spice since they don't have the LMPs. Finally, isn't it the crazy sights, sounds, and variety of sportscar racing that drew so many of us in in the first place? |
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10 Apr 2009, 05:01 (Ref:2437856) | #85 | |
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Amen...
(Huge: even closer; Tampa) pit |
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10 Apr 2009, 10:57 (Ref:2437984) | #86 | ||
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That goes for the looks too, the basic technical regulations for GT1 and GT2 are very similar, again the current 911 looks closer to the old 911 GT2 Turbo, even some resemblance to the 911 GT1. The criticism of GT2 looking like a Porsche/Ferrari challenge could also apply to the GT1 Viper/Corvette or Corvette/Aston days, but thats changing with BMW, Corvette, Lamborghini and Aston coming. All that could be thrown away for kit car 'GT1's' that are little quicker than what we have now, I'm sure BMW and GM will be overjoyed to see a Matech Ford GT and silhouette Nissan beating their new GT2's. |
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10 Apr 2009, 17:44 (Ref:2438201) | #87 | |||
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Yes, the GT2 Panoz is noisy, but in no way compares to the old GTR-1 - I've seen and heard both on many occasions. The original Roush engined GTR-1 was simply the loudest car I have ever heard. And felt - my ribcage was vibrating! This is the sort of thing we need in top class GT racing. The first time it went past, everyone in the stands just looked at each other and grinned. Show me the GT2 that does that! As for the most spectacular GT car that I've ever seen - it was Cor Euser's Marcos LM600 running in the Kumho EuroGT series without any air restrictors. 700hp anyone??!! Visibly faster on the straight than any GT I'd ever seen before, 1990s GT1s included! This is the stuff that legends are made of, not a field of GT2 Porsches and Ferraris. |
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10 Apr 2009, 18:24 (Ref:2438217) | #88 | |||
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The proposed GT1 that some think could cause troubles, is basically the same , and I mean in abstract form, thing Bishop did with the GTs before he got tired of Porsche beng one step ahead of him and created the P class. (Porsche was ready for that but it worked for quiete some time). Would you rather see, prod. based cars with any engine, within reason, from the same manufacturer; or tube frames with homologated prod., and I mean the same engines architechture that is in the prod. car, engines. The latter IS NOT being proposed, but I am curious as to which you would rather see. |
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10 Apr 2009, 19:23 (Ref:2438259) | #89 | |||
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This is basically like the old GT1 - the Panoz GTR-1 used to use a pushrod Roush Ford V8, the homologated GTR-1 road car used the 4.6 Ford Modular engine - no pushrods there! I think what Nissan have done is acceptable - they've obviously decided that it would take too much time and money to tune the V6 twin-turbo to the regulations (are turbos even allowed in the proposed GT1-2010???) so they have gone for the N/A V8 instead, which as far as I am aware is also based on a production engine and not the Super GT engine. |
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10 Apr 2009, 20:17 (Ref:2438293) | #90 | ||
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10 Apr 2009, 20:37 (Ref:2438299) | #91 | ||
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[QUOTE=geeteeone;2438201]I've seen the M3 GTR V8 race too, but I have to say it really didn't have the same effect on me. I just don't think GT2s are quick enough to really register on my radar, particularly horsepower-wise.
QUOTE] I was thinking JAG was off the mark. Then I remembered - Spa 24 2004, dusk. Eau Rouge. M3 GTR. Never have I seen anything as spectacular outside of prototypes. |
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11 Apr 2009, 11:36 (Ref:2438534) | #92 | ||
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[QUOTE=Splendid Cat;2438299]
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I'd also give the cars 5% bigger restrictors (10% may give the big V8's/V10's too big an advantage) which would see them top 550bhp, and cut back much of the electronics and exotic materials. 550bhp - 1150kg - 14in tyres = quicker than the proposed GT1 class, everyone in a single class, no need for entirely new cars. |
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11 Apr 2009, 16:29 (Ref:2438884) | #93 | |||
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The second - trying to push the current GT2 engine formula up to 550hp is going to cause problems for the smaller engined cars such as the Porsche. I'm sure they could do it, but the engine development required to do this would surely push up the costs. The only way the current 911 GT3 RSR engine would get anywhere near this figure is to remove the air restrictors altogether! Of course, if they were to slap a turbo on it... |
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11 Apr 2009, 16:42 (Ref:2438889) | #94 | ||
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The Porsche Flat-6s in the Daytona Prototypes make close to 550 bhp, so it should be possible.
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11 Apr 2009, 17:42 (Ref:2438917) | #95 | ||
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11 Apr 2009, 17:46 (Ref:2438919) | #96 | |||
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It's only Porsche out of the 'big' firms who don't have a bigger car and they're more interested in prototype racing anyway aren't they? Ferrari and/or Maserati, Aston, Jag, Corvette, BMW, Merc (i bet there's more besides) plus the smaller firms like K-segg, Saleen, Pagani etc all have big cars ready and available to adapt to big class GT racing which suits Ratel down to the ground I reckon? |
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11 Apr 2009, 21:38 (Ref:2439017) | #97 | |
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Out of curiosity, has there been made any mention of homologation numbers for the new GT1? I hadn't seen any. Is that where they would use "performance balancing" if a manufacturer or tuner wanted to enter a car that didn't have the minimum number of road versions?
Obviously this might now be such a problem for the GT1WC itself, since there can only be 6 manufacturers max anyway (at this point at least). With all this discussion going on, I have been going back and rewatching the races from the 1997 and 1998 FIA GT series... good grief, what awesome racing... and the CARS, oh the cars... pit |
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11 Apr 2009, 22:09 (Ref:2439025) | #98 | |
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Some of what makes the old GT idea kinda obsolete is the success of that idea. In making better, faster cars everybody learned how to make it better all around. The clean polished cars we have now are evolution of the firebreathing cars of the past. Don't think we can ever see them again because a polished racer can always beat that monster now, even the GTs have become prototype clinical in their efficiency. We may have to have rules that REALLY limit how far you can modify the car from the street version, but then only Porsche and Ferrari may apply. Possibly AM, Merc, BMW or GM may show up occasionally but those 2 have learned so much it's hard to beat them all the time.
As for the ACO GT and SRO GT beinng the same rules, nice idea but think the SRO GTs should be a LOT wilder. If they're to be the headliner, they should be the wild, big power, low traction(skinnier or harder tires) sliding and harder to drive. But with prototypes on the grid too the GTs for the ACO may need to be a little more polished and controllable, need to have the control to not take out the passing prototype. But I never got to see the "glory days" of the GT1s so this is more what I'd like to see and think could work than a connection to the old ideas and cars. |
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12 Apr 2009, 04:12 (Ref:2439089) | #99 | ||
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12 Apr 2009, 05:06 (Ref:2439100) | #100 | ||
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On that thought, I would be interested to see the results of an ALMS or LMS race if the Super GT cars (GT500) were allowed to run one race in the LMP2 class, and keep their same spec. Just a few years back, the GT500 NSX ran a faster qualifying time than the Goh Audi R8 at one particular track... it would be interesting, that's all I'm saying... ;-) pit |
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