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Old 7 May 2012, 22:15   #16
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KA I think it was a guy called John Bell who entered the car in '85 with Whizzo as the second driver. One ran up north a couple of years later i think it was Brian Litherland who raced either the same car or a different one? This was the guy who owned or leased a VK Holden at some point too?
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Old 8 May 2012, 06:11   #17
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Thanks- I can't remember who ran the 240RS I saw in Thundersaloons, but was pretty sure it was '86/7, so presumably not the Bell/Williams combo.
I was looking out some pics earlier- can't find one of the 240RS so far, but other cars at the same meeting include the Stars & Stripes Manta, the GMDS Carlton (plus the Senator/Commodore, by then sold on to Pete Stevens), and a Quattro- Andy Dawson-run as I recall. Modsaloons were also on the programme, and Brian Chatfield's ex-Bastos Rover is in one shot, so I reckon it has to be 1987

Litherland's name rings a bell, but probably from the Thundersaloon threads either on here or Autosport Nostalgia forum. If I can find a pic of the Nissan, I'll post it.

Here's the 1985 Bell/Williams car:
http://www.racing-car-photos.com/picture/number1704.asp

Apparently it's still alive, under restoration by a guy named Tom Murphy, who also has an ex-Mark Lovell car from 1984, WIA3104.
http://www.project-831.co.uk/aboutus

(Lovell's 1985 National Championship car, FIW6902, in distinctive Catrol colours is apparently now in NZ)
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...Stages1985.jpg
http://www.drivesouth.co.nz/newsitem...g-nissan-240rs
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Old 8 May 2012, 08:32   #18
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Chassis 103 has just come up for sale. This was originally sent over to South Africa but is a UK registered car.

Nissan 240RS Chassis #103
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Old 8 May 2012, 13:04   #19
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From memory there was a good article in CCC some years back (it would have to be because CCC stopped being published some years ago !)
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Old 8 May 2012, 13:26   #20
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That's a thought- as you say, most of the UK-based 240s (and a few of the European ones) seem to have had Northern Ireland, or occasionally Isle of Man, registrations. There were only a handful with 'mainland' plates as I remember- I noticed Terry Kaby in PVV646Y in one of those RallyRetro pics:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...rRally1985.jpg

I suspect there was presumably some kind of tax or Type Approval reason for them not being registered on the mainland? (In a similar vein, didn't a lot of the David Sutton Audi UK Quattros have IoM plates?)
I'm not sure that there would have been any tax or type approval reasons for registering them in N.I., it's possible they were landed there by a prep company such as Sydney Meeke or Kenny McKinstry... quite a few of the Manta and Ascona 400s were N.I. registered by Meeke's I think.
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Old 8 May 2012, 14:39   #21
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I'm not sure that there would have been any tax or type approval reasons for registering them in N.I., it's possible they were landed there by a prep company such as Sydney Meeke or Kenny McKinstry... quite a few of the Manta and Ascona 400s were N.I. registered by Meeke's I think.
I wondered about that- I'd assumed that Bill Blydenstein was the main source of the 240RS in Europe, in which case it seemed odd that the majority of UK-registered examples (including some of the European privateers as well as the UK/Irish ones) were registered in N.I, or occasionally on the Isle of Man, if they were being built and prepped at Shepreth.
As you said, quite a few of the GMDS Mantas were N.I registered- and thinking about it, a lot of the David Sutton/Audi UK Quattros wore Isle of Man plates...

Just been looking at 240RS pics on around the web, and found something interesting in a description of the ex-Ian Roberton car FIW9125 (he seems to have had two or three) which probably accounts for this:

'The first keeper of this car was Blydenstein Racing, registered at an office address in Northern Ireland, and there is a goverment document supporting this...
Thereby confirming a link to that prestigious tuning company, if only as the importer...
In the 1980's, the Northern Irish Registration Office wasn't linked to DVLA in the UK, as it is now, and the DVLA V5 Registration document doesn't begin listing owners until 1989...'

http://www.nissan-240rs.com/RHD_Niss..._Rallycar.html



If Blydenstein had an office in N Ireland, it makes perfect sense that a lot of the cars had N.I. reg numbers, as they were presumably imported via there
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Old 8 May 2012, 14:49   #22
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Thanks- I can't remember who ran the 240RS I saw in Thundersaloons, but was pretty sure it was '86/7, so presumably not the Bell/Williams combo.
I was looking out some pics earlier- can't find one of the 240RS so far, but other cars at the same meeting include the Stars & Stripes Manta, the GMDS Carlton (plus the Senator/Commodore, by then sold on to Pete Stevens), and a Quattro- Andy Dawson-run as I recall. Modsaloons were also on the programme, and Brian Chatfield's ex-Bastos Rover is in one shot, so I reckon it has to be 1987

Litherland's name rings a bell, but probably from the Thundersaloon threads either on here or Autosport Nostalgia forum. If I can find a pic of the Nissan, I'll post it.

Here's the 1985 Bell/Williams car:
http://www.racing-car-photos.com/picture/number1704.asp

Apparently it's still alive, under restoration by a guy named Tom Murphy, who also has an ex-Mark Lovell car from 1984, WIA3104.
http://www.project-831.co.uk/aboutus

(Lovell's 1985 National Championship car, FIW6902, in distinctive Catrol colours is apparently now in NZ)
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...Stages1985.jpg
http://www.drivesouth.co.nz/newsitem...g-nissan-240rs
I can remember Andy Dawson winning a special saloon race in the Quattro around that time.
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Old 8 May 2012, 15:00   #23
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Originally Posted by KA View Post
I wondered about that- I'd assumed that Bill Blydenstein was the main source of the 240RS in Europe, in which case it seemed odd that the majority of UK-registered examples (including some of the European privateers as well as the UK/Irish ones) were registered in N.I, or occasionally on the Isle of Man, if they were being built and prepped at Shepreth.
As you said, quite a few of the GMDS Mantas were N.I registered- and thinking about it, a lot of the David Sutton/Audi UK Quattros wore Isle of Man plates...

Just been looking at 240RS pics on around the web, and found something interesting in a description of the ex-Ian Roberton car FIW9125 (he seems to have had two or three) which probably accounts for this:

'The first keeper of this car was Blydenstein Racing, registered at an office address in Northern Ireland, and there is a goverment document supporting this...
Thereby confirming a link to that prestigious tuning company, if only as the importer...
In the 1980's, the Northern Irish Registration Office wasn't linked to DVLA in the UK, as it is now, and the DVLA V5 Registration document doesn't begin listing owners until 1989...'

http://www.nissan-240rs.com/RHD_Niss..._Rallycar.html



If Blydenstein had an office in N Ireland, it makes perfect sense that a lot of the cars had N.I. reg numbers, as they were presumably imported via there
Chicken / egg or egg / chicken?
I would have thought that WBB had an office in Ireland purely for vehicle registration purposes.
As others have already mentioned, a number of cars wore either Irish or IOM registrations, so I can only assume that there must have been a reason for doing this. maybe taxation, insurance or type approval? but I'm sure there will have been a reason for doing it, which is why they's have set up an office (or just an address) there.
(PS, I'm not implying that anything underhand was going on, just that there must have been a sound reason for doing this).
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Old 8 May 2012, 15:01   #24
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Originally Posted by Andy Clegg View Post
I can remember Andy Dawson winning a special saloon race in the Quattro around that time.
Plain white car as I recall? It certainly did a few Thundersaloon races as well

(Edited to add- just had a quick search, and came up with some pics on the Pistonheads forum from a July '87 Thundersaloon meeting at Silverstone- which I guess must be the one I was at.)

The Dawson Quattro:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...6071987003.jpg

and returning back on topic- the 240RS in the pit garage- Bryan Litherland/Rhoddy Harvey-Bailey according to the forum post I found it on
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...6071987012.jpg
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Old 8 May 2012, 15:26   #25
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Originally Posted by KA View Post
I wondered about that- I'd assumed that Bill Blydenstein was the main source of the 240RS in Europe, in which case it seemed odd that the majority of UK-registered examples (including some of the European privateers as well as the UK/Irish ones) were registered in N.I, or occasionally on the Isle of Man, if they were being built and prepped at Shepreth.
As you said, quite a few of the GMDS Mantas were N.I registered- and thinking about it, a lot of the David Sutton/Audi UK Quattros wore Isle of Man plates...

Just been looking at 240RS pics on around the web, and found something interesting in a description of the ex-Ian Roberton car FIW9125 (he seems to have had two or three) which probably accounts for this:

'The first keeper of this car was Blydenstein Racing, registered at an office address in Northern Ireland, and there is a goverment document supporting this...
Thereby confirming a link to that prestigious tuning company, if only as the importer...
In the 1980's, the Northern Irish Registration Office wasn't linked to DVLA in the UK, as it is now, and the DVLA V5 Registration document doesn't begin listing owners until 1989...'

http://www.nissan-240rs.com/RHD_Niss..._Rallycar.html



If Blydenstein had an office in N Ireland, it makes perfect sense that a lot of the cars had N.I. reg numbers, as they were presumably imported via there
Hhhmmm... that's a strange one indeed. To my knowledge there would be no type approval or tax reasons for doing this. I do know that many of the Japanese car manufacturers tested models in the Republic of Ireland before launching them elsewhere in Europe and during the 1970s and 1980s, the Dublin import facilities of these organizations [particularly Nissan and Toyota] was much bigger than was required for the Irish market. Maybe they were brought in to the South and then registered in the North ? I'm just grappling at straws there though... but Blydenstein having an office in Northern Ireland is a new one on me... and we're sure that wasn't Sydney Meeke's organization there ?
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Old 8 May 2012, 18:28   #26
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Plain white car as I recall? It certainly did a few Thundersaloon races as well

(Edited to add- just had a quick search, and came up with some pics on the Pistonheads forum from a July '87 Thundersaloon meeting at Silverstone- which I guess must be the one I was at.)

The Dawson Quattro:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...6071987003.jpg

and returning back on topic- the 240RS in the pit garage- Bryan Litherland/Rhoddy Harvey-Bailey according to the forum post I found it on
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...6071987012.jpg
For some reason I remembered the Quattro being yellow, because Dawson had run some Audi's in Africa or something sponsored by a firm that had a yellow branding, was it HB or Camel or something?, Dodgy memory from me there then!

Good find re the Litherland car, this is something I could've sworn was plain white but it's obviously in NME colours in the garage there! But I might be getting confused with the John Bell car.

Rhoddy Harvey-Bailey as co-driver is in itself interesting as he was a renowned handling expert, an expertise I would imagine was quite handy in running the Nissan in race spec!
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Old 8 May 2012, 18:38   #27
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For some reason I remembered the Quattro being yellow, because Dawson had run some Audi's in Africa or something sponsored by a firm that had a yellow branding, was it HB or Camel or something?, Dodgy memory from me there then!
You mean this one?
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Old 8 May 2012, 20:16   #28
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A lot of the 240rs's had N I plates because there was no type approval in england. BBR got around this using the Northern Island registration . This is how I got a copry of the registration papers for my car.

SO apart from the thunder saloon car and the other well known cars, does any body know of any private cars that were being tested/run around the 85/86 season.
The major problem with 240rs registrations is that the same plate appeared on more than one car, when run by BBR, this make tracing chassis numbers rather hard.
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Old 8 May 2012, 20:41   #29
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A lot of the 240rs's had N I plates because there was no type approval in england. BBR got around this using the Northern Island registration . This is how I got a copry of the registration papers for my car.
Type approval would be based on the country [i.e. the UK] rather than the nation [i.e. England, Wales, Scotland or N.I.]. Cars in N.I. required UK type approval too.
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Old 8 May 2012, 20:46   #30
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For some reason I remembered the Quattro being yellow, because Dawson had run some Audi's in Africa or something sponsored by a firm that had a yellow branding, was it HB or Camel or something?, Dodgy memory from me there then!

Good find re the Litherland car, this is something I could've sworn was plain white but it's obviously in NME colours in the garage there! But I might be getting confused with the John Bell car.
The Andy Dawson Quattros were for the Hong Kong-Beijing Rally in 1985/6 for Hannu Mikkola ('85) Stig Blomqvist ('86), and Dawson himself. The sponsor (for both the team and the event) was '555', later of Subaru fame. IIRC one of the cars is now in the museum collection at Beaulieu
http://www.urquattro.fr/Web/doc/5160/58/5832.jpg

http://www.toycollector.com/gallery/...Quattro_A2.JPG

'HB' sponsored the works cars from about 1984/5 until they pulled out of rallying during '87
.
I've definitely seen a photo of the John Bell 240RS Thundersaloon in plain white, but I don't know if it ever raced like this, or it was just a pre-season testing pic- it's dated Feb '85:
http://www.project-831.co.uk/sites/d...illiams001.jpg

Looking at the pic I linked a few posts back, the Bell car also raced in NME red/white/blue; I'd guess the Bell and Litherland Nissans were one and the same car: http://www.racing-car-photos.com/picture/number1704.asp
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