Future Grands Prix?

[chillibowl]

a bit harsh and one sided perhaps but 20-30 mil a year buys a lot of advertising and with TV numbers declining im not sure that F1 still stacks up in terms of being a beneficial ad buy. in fairness i havent seen any numbers on this so its just an assumption on my part.

agreed though that some races do recoup their investment via sales and accommodation taxes paid by visitors and Montreal (which has a rather low sanctioning fee to begin with - $10-15mil iirc), is from personal experience, a truly unique experience as the whole city shuts down for a GP weekend. in addition to the 100-120K unique visitors to the track you have a many more thousands descending to enjoy the support festivities. thats a lot of people spending money and paying taxes but is Montreal unique or the norm?

a few years back, maybe around the time that it was announced that Austin would receive 25mil per year from their State's entertainment fund or maybe it was before that. anyways one of the members posted a link to an article/paper which made a point that still festers with me today.

if i can do it justice, essentially the point was that event of this nature require that the local population support and attend in massive numbers in order for the event to be successful. and since most people only have a finite amount of disposable income to spend on entertainment, they have to choose whether to buy a F1 ticket or purchase some other form of entertainment (usually local in nature). regardless of what their choice is though it still equals the same amount of tax being collected. either it is X dollars (and Y sales tax) that goes to F1 or its X and Y going to other local events (even to multiple other local events). in other words no new tax dollars are being generated as its just a redistribution of taxes being collected from either one event or another. thus from the point of view of the state they would be better off not subsidizing anything and let people spend their money on local activities as they would if f1 never came to town in the first place. and the local are better off as the state can now spend that 25mil on something the majority of locals want or need.

this argument has always festered with my as it does make sense. F1 of course is supposedly drawing in a lot of people who are not local residents and thats where the benefit of advertising to potential tourists comes in i suppose...but as mentioned earlier i also dont see that translating into large crowds at the race track.

a few years ago i would have whole heartedly agreed with your position but given the locations being picked for new races, the prices being charged, and the costs of admission, i find myself questioning my old belief that its good when gov't uses my tax dollars for entertaining a relatively small minority of people.

interesting but difficult subject. sorry for the long response but it is a subject which very much fascinates me.

[Mekola]

After the Dakar, MotoGP, WTCC and Formula E experiences, Argentina proved to be a place to have back a Formula 1 GP. Also F1 drivers (López, Guerrieri mainly).

[Paradise City]

UNESCO should step in a declare the NN a World Heritage Site.

[Mekola]

The Nürburgring Nordscheife should be a World Heritage Site, me too...

[wolfhound]

According to Joe Saward Hockenheim do not know that they will host the 2015 German GP!
Strange, then it might be an old Bernie trick to get the Nurburgring to give him more $$$$$$$s.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/01/16/germany/

[wolfhound]

Bernie has said the German GP may not happen this year as he does not have a deal with Hockenheim and Nurburgring is not in a position to hold the GP.

It would be a sad state of affairs if a core motorsport country like Germany cannot afford to hold a GP. After all the current world constructors champions are German and they have at least 2 drivers who are capable of winning the drivers championship.

http://www.pitpass.com/53213/German-...its-Ecclestone

[Paradise City]

It wouldn't just be sad; it'd be stupid.

[S griffin]

Remind me again which country Bernie had his trial in?

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Remind me again which country Bernie had his trial in?

Indeed touché.

It however it would be almost as ridiculous as not having a race in France... Oh wait...

[bjohnsonsmith]

I get the feeling Bernie doesn't care where F1 races, just as long as he gets his sanction fee.

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I get the feeling Bernie doesn't care where F1 races, just as long as he gets his sanction fee.

This is what happens when you give responsibility to run a sport to a commercial enterprise. They do not care who pays them for a race as long as they are getting their fee. They do not care if no one turns up to the track as they do not need live spectators to make their money. When the promoter or circuit owner goes broke because of no live spectators, they will find another promoter or circuit who will pay the fee to run the race.

The places that do get spectators know the value of keeping the event so will continue to pay what is required while they are still making money. Look at the British GP providing financing options to fans to get tickets this year. At some point the balance will tip, fans will stop going and the circuit will stop paying the fee. Well unless the Government tops it up.

In the case of circuits like Albert Park, the promoter is the Government and they look at the return on investment on tourism and what not. They don't look to make a profit on the event as such because they are more concerned about the overall economic benefit.

The future of F1 could well be 19 races at the one circuit owned by FOM, with perhaps 30 or 40 different layouts designed by Tilke and changed each year. No spectators required - a pure visual event for the European fans in their timezone. He could have his flooded track to spice things up or what have you.

Oh and the one race at Monaco as required by the contract.

Those who think of F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport would be aghast, but those who flick around the teev looking for sportsutainment wouldn't mind.
Those who no longer have to transport their cars or teams all over the world would save money. Teams would be home more with their families.

[chillibowl]

said in jest but a likely scenario given what i saw during the presentation video of Microsoft's new Hololens device.

if this form of entertainment takes off then potentially the wearer could be provided with their own backgrounds, advertisers could present their own targeted adverts, and grandstands could be made to look as full as you want (all for an additional but nominal fee for the consumer of course).

all the while every 'holo-race' (patent pending on that term FOM!) takes place on any one of the varied layouts which a Paul Ricard like track could provide.

brave new world my friends!

[wolfhound]

It looks like the chances of a German GP this year are diminshing rapidly.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ec...host-2015-race

It is interesting to note Bernie put out this news on a day when F1's attention is on car launches.

[wolfhound]

Bernie is sad because there will at the loss of 2015 German GP.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns29877.html

Niki Lauda said it is a disaster.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns29884.html

There are a number of GP's that should always be part of the world championship and the German GP is one of them.

[Sodemo]

In a way, I hope its a wake up call to F1 in general if the German race doesn't happen. I feel sorry for the fans who actually want to attend, but maybe its a good thing if there is no race. Maybe it could mean lower ticket prices or lower race fees for circuits. Germany has such good motorsport, i'm not surprised if people are tuning into other things rather than F1. Good for them if that's the case.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

France, Germany, constant threats to the British GP, I'm almost convinced that Formula 1 actively tries erase both it's history and it's fan base. There was also the Italian GP incident last year. The management is AWFUL and how the pinnacle of motorsports has got to such a pathetic and obnoxious state of affairs is due to it being run by an isolated, corrupt group of rich men who only run it to get richer. It's clear that they no longer care about the fans or the history or anything really unless it results in them getting lots of money in a short space of time.

This short-sightedness is killing Formula 1 and giving motorsport in general a bad name. It's frankly hopeless. What makes it worse is that when the 'organisers' decide that they do care about the fans, they do it in a way that suits them and end up making the whole situation a lot worse than it was. For the good of motorsport it's time that something changed dramatically, quickly, but also sensibly.

So, is anyone tempted to join me in this glorious revolution against the evil capitalist ruling class?

Edit: Maybe there should be an experimental socialist version of F1 where all winnings are shared out equally, drivers are paid no less than mechanics, press releases constantly ridicule Mr E, and maybe there can even be satellite series' such as the people's FR3.5. Because Formula is run by the people, for the people.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

In a way, I hope its a wake up call to F1 in general if the German race doesn't happen. I feel sorry for the fans who actually want to attend, but maybe its a good thing if there is no race. Maybe it could mean lower ticket prices or lower race fees for circuits. Germany has such good motorsport, i'm not surprised if people are tuning into other things rather than F1. Good for them if that's the case.

I've learnt that Eccelstone is immune to wake up calls. German fans ,who are still interested, aren't too badly done by - Austria and Belgium is within striking distance. But it's disrespectful and I expect German interest will plunge further. Not to mention keeping VW group in their state of perpetual disinterest. No GP in France nor Germany. Unthinkable until a few years ago.

[Tucky]

To be fair to Bernie (I know, what am I saying?!?!) it seems like this episode has got nothing to do with him but rather with a dodgy set of owners who, like Bernie, are oblivious to the differences between legal and illegal.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Tucky

To be fair to Bernie (I know, what am I saying?!?!) it seems like this episode has got nothing to do with him but rather with a dodgy set of owners who, like Bernie, are oblivious to the differences between legal and illegal.

I'm sorry but in order to retain credibility I must censor these comments.

Whatever's happening is a complete farce, that is a certainty.

[Paradise City]

F1 is a big cashcow. F1 top dogs could clear this German "misunderstanding" up if they wanted to tomorrow. As it is, there's enough Sheik's with big bank balances to keep the F1 top dogs in their Marie Anroinette stupor.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Tucky

To be fair to Bernie (I know, what am I saying?!?!) it seems like this episode has got nothing to do with him but rather with a dodgy set of owners who, like Bernie, are oblivious to the differences between legal and illegal.

He mentioned moving the GP to Hockenhiem a few weeks ago but had no agreement with them. However they loose money on GP's and cannot afford to run another GP at the sort of rate Bernie charges.

Even the travel companies seem to be confused as to where the German GP is being held.
http://www.leger.co.uk/tours/ggp/ger...oach/Itinerary

[wolfhound]

The Nurburgring have been surprised by Bernie's comments as they had a confidentiality agreement. That might suggest that feel a GP could happen.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns29885.html

[JacobP]

The solution to GP problem is simple, get rid of Bernie. (Well, in fact, ideally the teams should get together and form a new championship. )

[JeremySmith]

The teams could note vote on where to eat lunch .. Form a new series ? I doubt it very much ...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JacobP

The solution to GP problem is simple, get rid of Bernie. (Well, in fact, ideally the teams should get together and form a new championship. )

Unfortunately, I think the teams have a rather short termist, self-serving view and will be happy to stick with Bernie; it's so much easier than setting up their own series.