|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
1 Jan 2016, 17:40 (Ref:3601448) | #26 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,052
|
Quote:
Now it looks like Wehrlein is sticking around in the DTM, who would Ocon replace? |
|||
|
2 Jan 2016, 18:51 (Ref:3601631) | #27 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 574
|
Quote:
Lucas Auer, as Ocon is now a flully fledged Mercedes F1 driver he should get priority imo. It is a bit harsh for Auer, but i would choose Ocon anytime. |
||
|
17 Jan 2016, 14:09 (Ref:3605649) | #28 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 574
|
According to Ocon , the Mercedes decision may drag until mid-february.
|
|
|
17 Jan 2016, 14:41 (Ref:3605651) | #29 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 394
|
Quote:
A bit more radical idea from my side to increase viewership & 'popularity' would be to have the races during the evening. I don't know about you guys, but myself and my friends who have an interest in motorracing will not stay at home during saturday or sunday afternoon to watch DTM on the tv. However if it's on during the evening then i am likely to watch it. (This can also be seen with tv ratings for F1 GP's in canada or Brasil, the ratings for these gp's are generally a bit better in the Netherlands compared to others since it's starts on sundayevening). Quote:
Dropping Zandvoort, Austria and 1 of the 2 Hockenheimring races for races in the UK, France, Spain and italy would make sense imo. In addition, it should be fairly easy to get tv coverage on a network in these countries if the local branches commit some of their advertising budget to commercials during those broadcasts (Mercedes and BMW spend combined over GBP 50 million on advertising in the UK alone in 2013). |
|||
|
17 Jan 2016, 14:59 (Ref:3605654) | #30 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,325
|
Quote:
Now, DTM are pretty bad as far as tin-tops are concerned, but I see absolutely no chance for a successful switch to formula-style cars. (Not the least because of how big Audi and BMW seem to be on road-relevance). |
|||
__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
17 Jan 2016, 17:31 (Ref:3605673) | #31 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 394
|
Quote:
The closest two are DTM and BTCC, and i believe BTCC is the only one that is really ''succesfull' on its own power. DTM to me is just the result of the 3 oems throwing massive money in it. I fully believe if these 3 would throw the same kind of money and promotion on a high powered open wheel serie (kind of like super formula or GP2) that this would get much higher attention. Having said that, your last sentence is indeed true, i don't believe for a second that it will ever chance to a formula class because the oems don't want that. |
||
|
18 Jan 2016, 18:56 (Ref:3605985) | #32 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,739
|
What GT3 racing is now was touring car racing in '70s, '80s and '90s.
|
|
|
20 Jan 2016, 18:48 (Ref:3606652) | #33 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,739
|
New engines delayed until 2019:
http://www.touringcartimes.com/2016/...ed-until-2019/ |
|
|
20 Jan 2016, 20:40 (Ref:3606692) | #34 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,721
|
I'm starting to worry that Class 1 will never appear.
|
||
|
21 Jan 2016, 12:54 (Ref:3606831) | #35 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,508
|
When complete, the Kymi Ring's FIM Grade A certification will be accompanied by Grade 2 on the FIA's motorsport scale. Car racing, including championships such as the DTM and World Touring Cars, is also on the venue's radar.
|
|
__________________
“Fernando Alonso has revealed that he would like to contest the 24 Hours of Le Mans, the world’s oldest and most famous sports car race" |
23 Jan 2016, 21:21 (Ref:3607465) | #36 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,546
|
I've used to think about it too, as I was a huge DTM fan when I first came to 10ths. But every year ITR did something, that knocked at the doors of sense heavily. Today it's not independent enough, there's not much sports in it and the level of self-admiration (hey, look at us, we are the best "touring" championship in the known Universe) multiplied by F1 mimicry in the worst possible way (why on earth are Germans so nuts about F1?) - everything prevents from organizing Klass1 = DTM + Super GT + Trans Am + smth in South Africa as it was in old good days.
|
||
__________________
ACO-Ratel-Lotti group of "entertainpreneurs" soon will make you think that Reverse-Gear-Racing is the most professional series in the world. "Faccio il pane con la farina che ho". |
23 Jan 2016, 23:22 (Ref:3607496) | #37 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,325
|
Those good old days never existed. Trans-Am was already a tube-chassis series when DTM first came onto the scene in 1984, and the South African cars were also always a lot more radical then what you could do in Group A.
|
||
__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
24 Jan 2016, 09:35 (Ref:3607544) | #38 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,396
|
@helgi
I have the same feeling as you are. Honestly, it's time for DTM to close its doors. |
|
|
24 Jan 2016, 10:18 (Ref:3607551) | #39 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 824
|
One reason: Michael Schumacher. Although F1 is also declining in popularity in Germany. Not only was the attendance of the German GP in freefall, TV ratings were also falling in 2015.
Well, the hopes I and perhaps "we" had in 2011 that DTM would finally improve...well, they haven't come true. While the level of talent in this series has certainly been raised when compared to 2009, everything else has been horribly managed. Also, what use do young drivers from single-seater feeder series have, when they're not marketed at all? Not to mention that we've had the third German champion in a row and yet only Pascal Wehrlein is slowly getting some recogniton among mainstream German racing fans (Which is obviously due to his ties to the Mercedes F1 team). But as for people like Rockenfeller or Wittmann? No chance. Time and time again I've mentioned that back in the 90's, drivers like Schneider, Stuck, Ludwig and perhaps Biela and Winkelhock were at least fairly well known at a time, where Michael Schumacher caused a real racing boom in Germany. I don't know about other countries, but apart from Football, every type of sports in Germany is destined to blow up like a bubble, only to burst. Take tennis: Boris Becker and Steffi Graf caused a tennis boom in Germany, but once both retired, tennis coverage in the German media went way down. In a sense, the same also happens to F1 at the moment, despite the fact that we still have two top drivers, as well as a German manufacturer dominating the series. I guess the German mainstream sporting fans are tired and saturated by F1. But a declining interest in F1 doesn't spell good things for DTM and such. In my opinion, mainstream interest in other forms of racing in Germany only comes alongside a high interest in F1. But when people move away from F1, they move entirely away from racing. But in my opinion, it's not neccesarily such a bad thing: The German racing scene can perhaps consolidate itself, rebuild (With the ADAC GT Masters, the new TCR Series and the DTC, as well as VLN, there a more than solid foundation) and recharge forward in a couple of years. But the first step has to be to closedown of DTM, because that series takes up too many resources: Too many sponsors, too much public interest (even though it's falling), too many fans. When the DTM doesn't take any of these away, other series can surely make good use of it. |
||
|
24 Jan 2016, 11:25 (Ref:3607569) | #40 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,325
|
Yet there is no indication whatsoever that DTM will fall...
|
||
__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
24 Jan 2016, 12:16 (Ref:3607578) | #41 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 574
|
Quote:
DTM will fall when HWA will loose money which is not the case right now. HWA has a rather handy ROI of 10% right now which is qui healthy. |
||
|
24 Jan 2016, 18:35 (Ref:3607663) | #42 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 824
|
Well, there is no official TV deal for 2016 yet (Although the DTM's twitter account confirmed that they retain their current deal), attendance is declining, mainstream attention is barely existant, the series lacks real stars, real sponsors and real racing. Granted, the manufacturers are still in it, but I can definitely see Audi and Mercedes pulling the plug on their DTM programmes. Audi, because of the VW diesel scandal and Mercedes, because they may need to save some money, due to the expensive F1 program.
Do you have any source for that? Because the ITR, the organizers of the DTM, is a non-profit organisation, which isn't allowed to earn any money. Any money Herr Aufrecht makes comes perhaps from his shares in AMG and the activities of the HWA AG. |
||
|
24 Jan 2016, 19:25 (Ref:3607678) | #43 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 574
|
Quote:
Sorry for the misunderstanding. If HWA AG is not healthy then DTM will have problems imo. Somewhat HWA AG is historically the heart of DTM since 2000. From what i see HWA AG is making good money of its businesses. The books looks good, so i can see why would HWA AG is willing to be standstill with DTM in terms of product as they earn good money. For the source: http://www.hwaag.com/fileadmin/user_...HWA_GB14_e.pdf 2015 for first semester numbers were looking better than 2014. |
||
|
24 Jan 2016, 19:38 (Ref:3607681) | #44 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 824
|
Thanks for the report!
The way I see it, HWA AG is also making money by selling Formula 3 engines and especially by selling the GT3 versions of the Mercedes-AMG GT. However, doesn't the HWA AG receive money by Mercedes to run the DTM program? So in the end, if Mercedes pulls the plug, things would look not too good for HWA and thus the DTM. That is the main problem of the DTM anyway: Too much dependence on manufacturers. I think we all agree when we say that DTM should have provided better conditions for potential privateers, right? |
||
|
24 Jan 2016, 20:10 (Ref:3607687) | #45 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,325
|
Quote:
I just find DTM easier to ignore than to get worked up about it. Especially since our number-2-series (GT-Masters) is at a level most countries would love to have as their top series. And then there's the new TCR-series to get excited about. |
|||
__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
25 Jan 2016, 19:14 (Ref:3607915) | #46 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,546
|
Quote:
@DS" thanks for an interesting answer! Was TV coverage in Ludwig's days as huge as today? Not mentioning Internet. I think, TV was a sweet curse for every kind of motorsports, especially those, who tend to be "entertaining" like a show. It's understandable, that people like to watch close racing (especially at TV) - so since then we don't have much difference in tech, as DTM, in fact, almost a spec chassis with superbly tight engine rules (besides, were there any "longer" tech sets for engines 2000-2019 - almost 20 years on the same block). So, no more space for sudden mid-season fight backs or so on. As an engineer, I'm deeply frustrated by that. I think only those, who at last find the golden middle of TV advantages and true, fair motorsports (not just high speed shows) will end up with a superb championship. Unfortunately, it can happen too late, as new generation prefer to watch virtual racing. |
|||
__________________
ACO-Ratel-Lotti group of "entertainpreneurs" soon will make you think that Reverse-Gear-Racing is the most professional series in the world. "Faccio il pane con la farina che ho". |
25 Jan 2016, 21:14 (Ref:3607956) | #47 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 574
|
Seems like Vietoris will keep his seat as he is back in HWA headquarters doing seatfit.
|
|
|
25 Jan 2016, 21:42 (Ref:3607962) | #48 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,208
|
Quote:
I don´t find DTM racing specially bad, for me what needs to improve is the variety of the rounds. For example having a few long races. |
|||
|
26 Jan 2016, 15:44 (Ref:3608151) | #49 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 574
|
Now Mercedes says they will hopefully unveil their DTM line-up mid-february.
Something is going on.... I'm pretty sure that Vietoris,Wickens , Di Resta and Paffett are safe. |
|
|
26 Jan 2016, 16:01 (Ref:3608162) | #50 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,721
|
What happens to Wehrlein is key. Ocon must be getting impatient.
|
||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[ELMS] ELMS 2016 | TheMightyM | ACO Regulated Series | 255 | 5 Oct 2016 14:43 |
2016 Calendar | William5 | Australasian Touring Cars. | 29 | 9 Sep 2015 01:34 |
[LM24] 2016 date...? | Muppetdave901 | 24 Heures du Mans | 2 | 11 Feb 2015 00:21 |
[DTM] DTM is dead, long lives ITC! | DS" | Touring Car Racing | 4 | 2 Apr 2012 17:31 |
Spotters Guides : BTCC, WTCC, SCC and DTM (DTM added) | andy_b | Touring Car Racing | 19 | 10 Oct 2007 19:53 |