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Old 3 Mar 2017, 18:06 (Ref:3716185)   #5151
TF110
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I think a possible reason they kept the budget the same was because the rules changed to only two bodykits this season. No extra resources are needed, since now you don't have to make 3 different aero configurations?

They have 3 cars for two races, including the big one. That's all that matters. If they run up against resources with "a couple accidents", it's just a side effect they'll have to deal with. It'll be worth it if they win Le Mans though. Peugeot ran 3 cars at Le Mans with even less budget, so it's not an impossible feat.

They said savings were done elsewhere. Maybe less advertising, hospitality etc.?
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Old 3 Mar 2017, 19:06 (Ref:3716207)   #5152
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
the most annoying thing is that they have been forced to shift money for the third car from development too...

even-numbered years have been (somehow) good for toyota, but
after 2013 and 2015, could be another disappointing odd year for them?
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Old 3 Mar 2017, 19:23 (Ref:3716211)   #5153
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templer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtempler should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
German Pitwalk magazine has an explaination on this topic by Rob Leupen in their actual issue.
Rob said that they would have needed about 15-20 million euro to run a third car for the full WEC season. If they only run it on Spa and LM they need just a few million euro, as the car is mainly built up by spare parts and they don't need a full season third car crew.

The initial plan at TMG was to introduce a chassis with major redevelopments ( I think he was talking about the monocoque) and a completely new monocoque and car for 2018.
After Audi left the scene the ACO shifted their new rules back, so also TMG shifted their plans back.
As they don't need to redevelop the chassis this year and work on the new car for 2018 they had some money available from their development budget which they used to run the third car.
This doesn't mean that TMG hasn't worked very hard on the 2017 TS050!!!

So at the moment I cannot say where the financial risk for TMG is.

The only problem I see is the number of spare parts if they use already some of them to built up a third car.
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Old 4 Mar 2017, 05:39 (Ref:3716327)   #5154
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Great information templer. I think before I questioned the notion of a very high cost of running a third car for two races. Good to hear that they are still on schedule and expectations for the new car.
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Old 4 Mar 2017, 15:03 (Ref:3716447)   #5155
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Well you have to consider, that in early 2016 TMG got the budget to develop a thrid ERS for 2018, which would have been a MGU-H system, quite similar to the Porsche. They got the budget for that and they started in2015/2016 to develope it. Now they dont need it and either the money for that, because it was delayed to at least 2020, at least. I would not be surprised that by 2020 the thrid ERS and 10 or 12 MJ class would be gone. So it's very likely that they just used the money from the third ERS to run the third car
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Old 5 Mar 2017, 06:34 (Ref:3716584)   #5156
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Makes sense. The budget maybe went up last year(?) so they are working with the same amount. But no immediate future change of regs sure saves money on r&d. I think the article titles are a bit click-bait.
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Old 5 Mar 2017, 16:45 (Ref:3716698)   #5157
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Following on from the Porsche thread, Toyota will run their high downforce kit at Silverstone and probably Spa.
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Old 5 Mar 2017, 23:02 (Ref:3716748)   #5158
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Following on from the Porsche thread, Toyota will run their high downforce kit at Silverstone and probably Spa.
I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two cars with LM bodykits at Spa. Unless they want to hide it and continue developing the car until it gets to Le Mans. They did that last year and it was the best car there.
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Old 6 Mar 2017, 12:33 (Ref:3716836)   #5159
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128382

I don't blame them one iota, and I suspect Porsche would do the same.
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Old 6 Mar 2017, 13:20 (Ref:3716853)   #5160
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roderick should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridroderick should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Personally, whatever tmg say's is their own opinion and nothing to do with toyota's decision.
They do talk about what their plans are but after all, people who makes the decision are at HQ of Toyota .
As of funding, last year, we spent a lot to develop the new car, new HV, new engine so that's a lot of money.
This year, car is getting a minor upgrades, HV system is getting few upstages, engine is brand new.
So making 3 cars aren't too hard.(also Toyota is saving slot of money on individual components)

To sum it up, as far as I know, 2017spec had need decided before 3 cars were announced therefore the performance would have been the same whether they got more money or not. However, if Toyota gave more funding, 2017 would be more reliable.

Ps:its just my opinion
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Old 6 Mar 2017, 16:37 (Ref:3716875)   #5161
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kvenom should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridkvenom should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Here is a clearer pic of the reshaped rear:

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Old 6 Mar 2017, 21:38 (Ref:3716926)   #5162
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That pic from their latest tweet?

I agree that without hybrid or relevant technology, Toyota and Porsche would probably not be there. I think the ACO can accommodate it and still keep costs low. They can have a 'lightweight' manufacturer class alongside the 'alternative fuel' or 'relevant technology' manufacturer class.
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Old 7 Mar 2017, 18:45 (Ref:3717098)   #5163
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That pic from their latest tweet?

I agree that without hybrid or relevant technology, Toyota and Porsche would probably not be there. I think the ACO can accommodate it and still keep costs low. They can have a 'lightweight' manufacturer class alongside the 'alternative fuel' or 'relevant technology' manufacturer class.
That rear end looks like the latest one.
But the front end has changed drastically !
Maybe with LED headlight!?
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Old 8 Mar 2017, 10:58 (Ref:3717242)   #5164
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Old 14 Mar 2017, 10:39 (Ref:3718519)   #5165
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Yuji Kunimoto (and Kazuki Nakajima) will skip Fuji SGT official test (March 25,26).
(Schedule of SGT Fuji round is May 3-4.)
He must be a 3rd car driver of Toyota WEC team.
http://www.as-web.jp/supergt/99021?all

Last edited by Japanese Samurai; 14 Mar 2017 at 11:07.
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Old 14 Mar 2017, 19:31 (Ref:3718627)   #5166
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Thanks for the spot JS, that would seem to be the case. There's not another good reason to skip the test that I can think of.

Although it does leave a question as to why Ryo Hirakawa has apparently been passed over when he did the season in LMP2 a la Tsugio Matsuda before his drive in The-Prototype-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named*. Maybe they have a longer term plan for Hirakawa, or it could just be Kunimoto being plain fast, as expected of the SF champion.

*Seriously, let's not let another discussion be ruined with the same circular arguments.
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Old 14 Mar 2017, 21:47 (Ref:3718653)   #5167
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godlameroso should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgodlameroso should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Here's a question:

Is it cheaper to have two hybrid systems, or active aero?
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Old 14 Mar 2017, 22:29 (Ref:3718664)   #5168
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Thanks for the spot JS, that would seem to be the case. There's not another good reason to skip the test that I can think of.

Although it does leave a question as to why Ryo Hirakawa has apparently been passed over when he did the season in LMP2 a la Tsugio Matsuda before his drive in The-Prototype-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named*. Maybe they have a longer term plan for Hirakawa, or it could just be Kunimoto being plain fast, as expected of the SF champion.

*Seriously, let's not let another discussion be ruined with the same circular arguments.
As far as I know, hirakawa is definitely 3rd car driver.
The only question should be why the last driver is kunimoto .

Personally, having kunimoto to the 3rd car is waste of 3rd car.
He's English skill is too poor, not enough experience.
Could almost say the same thing for hirakawa but he is only a little better choice of the two...

I really hope kunimoto is there for the experience rather than 3rd car driver.
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Old 14 Mar 2017, 22:34 (Ref:3718667)   #5169
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He did well enough to win the Super Formula title. And in testing this preseason has been faster than his teammate and in the top 5 for overall times. Hirakawa has lmp2 experience and has tested the Toyota plenty of times. I would guess Kunimoto has too. If both are in the car it could be plenty quick. I don't know if the language barrier is (still) an issue with all the Japanese staff in this team.
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Old 14 Mar 2017, 23:17 (Ref:3718678)   #5170
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I'm surprised/not surprised that "language barriers" aren't a problem with TMG since they employ people of so many nationalities. Japanese, German, Dutch, British, and I'm probably missing a few. But in motorsport, like most industries, English seems to be a common working language, and TMG seem to be probably the biggest equal opportunity employer in motorsport. It seems that if you got the skills, they'll hire you. Not to mention that TMG's tentacles do reach out far and wide for mostly Japanese/German controlled company.

That's not to say that Audi when they were around, or Porsche discriminate, as they have quite a few foreign born personnel on their teams, but they seem to try and recruit locally, namely in Germany.

Last edited by chernaudi; 14 Mar 2017 at 23:36.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 20:03 (Ref:3718880)   #5171
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The factory language is indeed English. They do communicate very well. What it does allow a working environment where lots of different backgrounds can come together all bringing different perspectives.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 22:17 (Ref:3718907)   #5172
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I remember the Ishiura situation- he dropping the reserve seat because of lower back issues- and that (language barrier) was brought up as the real reason because he doesn't have good english. I guess that wasn't actually the case.
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Old 16 Mar 2017, 21:09 (Ref:3719191)   #5173
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I remember the Ishiura situation- he dropping the reserve seat because of lower back issues- and that (language barrier) was brought up as the real reason because he doesn't have good english. I guess that wasn't actually the case.
He was just too slow and the got sarrazin into play.
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Old 20 Mar 2017, 21:37 (Ref:3720289)   #5174
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kvenom should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridkvenom should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Ummm... Lapierre returns for the 3rd car?

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/nic...alpine-matmut/
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Old 20 Mar 2017, 23:37 (Ref:3720310)   #5175
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Cool if true, nice to see TMG give him a 2nd chance.
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