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Old 21 Apr 2017, 15:33 (Ref:3728207)   #26
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I tuned out from the BTCC during the BTC years of 2001 - 2006 as I really wasn't a fan of the cars. I got back into it once S2000 came in and started to attend races again, so from that point of view, my interest in the series has come and gone a little over the years. I'm not a **huge** fan of the current cars, but what keeps me attending the races is the spectacle and racing itself rather than the "cars".
I'm with you on this - the Super Touring and S2000 cars were cracking bits of kit that were/are interesting in their own right (moreso the Super Tourers). I've been to some club meetings purely on the strength of 1 or 2 Super Tourers being present for example. The current crop of cars are a bit 'meh' individually but there are enough of them to make the racing a spectacle.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 16:04 (Ref:3728212)   #27
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BMR and 888 seem to like to test in secrecy, but I can't see how testing at Croft will prepare them for Thruxton in any way at all. The tracks are very, very different, there is no track like Thurxton so I am suprised they didn't want to go there just to get a feel for the place on the tyres and actually get some decent running there after last year
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 16:58 (Ref:3728217)   #28
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Originally Posted by luckn002 View Post
From Dan Lloyd's Twitter: "Productive Friday getting ready for a busy week away next week. Looking forward to testing at Croft on Tuesday! Lots to work on for Thruxton"

So looks like MG are testing at Croft next week instead
Looking at Croft test days (28 April), the running sessions are limited. Will this give them anywhere near the mileage the likes of Eurotech got at Thruxton?
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 17:20 (Ref:3728219)   #29
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This was most hilarious. Thank you.

A technical failure in Race 1, contact-induced puncture in Race 2, back of the grid for Race 3 for JP, FYI.
So in your opinion he was on the pace of Sutton regardless of the his in-race misfortunes?

I only watched it live where it didn't look like it. I haven't seen any interviews or commentary on the Subarus relative positions yet but my theory was based on a comment about boost levels from within the paddock.

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Old 21 Apr 2017, 18:04 (Ref:3728225)   #30
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BMR and 888 seem to like to test in secrecy, but I can't see how testing at Croft will prepare them for Thruxton in any way at all. The tracks are very, very different, there is no track like Thurxton
Maybe they are looking at the bigger picture. As you say, Thruxton is like no other circuit, so testing at Thruxton only helps the next time you race at Thruxton. Testing at Croft will probably give you data that will be useful at other circuits. BMR's lack of pace so far this year suggests a fundamental problem with the car. If that's the case then testing at Croft may be the better long-term option.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 19:07 (Ref:3728236)   #31
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Maybe they are looking at the bigger picture. As you say, Thruxton is like no other circuit, so testing at Thruxton only helps the next time you race at Thruxton. Testing at Croft will probably give you data that will be useful at other circuits. BMR's lack of pace so far this year suggests a fundamental problem with the car. If that's the case then testing at Croft may be the better long-term option.
Are BMR testing at Croft though, or just the 888 MGs?
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 19:12 (Ref:3728237)   #32
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So in your opinion he was on the pace of Sutton regardless of the his in-race misfortunes?

I only watched it live where it didn't look like it. I haven't seen any interviews or commentary on the Subarus relative positions yet but my theory was based on a comment about boost levels from within the paddock.

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If you look at all the timing data from Donington, I think it's clear that the team is suffering from lack of testing and that the four drivers are just experimenting with different setups to try to progress.

Plato looks like he was trying to get the best out of the car's excellent handling through the corners. But that left him well off the pace in sector 3, so he qualified badly.

Cole seems to have had a completely different set-up to Plato... it was probably similar to Sutton's. It wasn't as fast as Plato in the first two sectors, but was better in S3. He's never been a great qualifier, so I think he would be looking for a setup that allowed him to overtake easily. Of course he didn't make it around a single lap in race 1, so that all back fired.

All four chose the option tyre in race 2. Rear wheel drive cars don't appear to be affected as badly by the hard compound. Sutton and Plato both made up places, although Plato faded in the last third of the race. Price was setting better lap times than the likes of Goff and Morgan, and it would have been interesting to see how he'd fared if he hadn't lost two laps in the pits.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 19:23 (Ref:3728240)   #33
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If you look at all the timing data from Donington, I think it's clear that the team is suffering from lack of testing and that the four drivers are just experimenting with different setups.
I can understand trying different setups through the FPs and into Qualy, but if it was entirely setup issues, then at least after Qualy, and definitely after R1 ( backed up in R2) it would have become apparent that Sutton's setup was the one to run across all 4 cars.

Persisting with development divergence, and testing apart from the rest of the grid, seems to have limited option for returns when they are nearly halfway through the Subaru deal already.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 19:29 (Ref:3728242)   #34
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I'll be more interested to see how the Subaru's perform from Oulton onwards, as that's where the pace appeared last year.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 20:28 (Ref:3728247)   #35
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I'll be more interested to see how the Subaru's perform from Oulton onwards, as that's where the pace appeared last year.
A repeat of last year's development curve will still leave them behind the pack though overall.
I would expect a new car to get stronger through the year (even more so with BTCC ballast rules), but in their second season they should be showing progress in the first third of the season, not once all of the other front runners are carrying ballast into weekends.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 22:14 (Ref:3728264)   #36
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I can understand trying different setups through the FPs and into Qualy, but if it was entirely setup issues, then at least after Qualy, and definitely after R1 ( backed up in R2) it would have become apparent that Sutton's setup was the one to run across all 4 cars.

Persisting with development divergence, and testing apart from the rest of the grid, seems to have limited option for returns when they are nearly halfway through the Subaru deal already.
The COG equalisation is apparently a sliding scale of two factors ("weight added to the front bulkhead or an increase in the sprung-mass floor height of the car"). My theory is they tried different levels on the various cars and the version on Sutton's car turned out to be best. Then they simply couldn't make the changes to the other cars mid-meeting.
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Old 22 Apr 2017, 07:05 (Ref:3728321)   #37
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The COG equalisation is apparently a sliding scale of two factors ("weight added to the front bulkhead or an increase in the sprung-mass floor height of the car"). My theory is they tried different levels on the various cars and the version on Sutton's car turned out to be best. Then they simply couldn't make the changes to the other cars mid-meeting.
True, but given the amount of work that goes into some cars over the weekend, I would have expected that there was enough time to make the changes between Qualy and R1. Maybe not during the Sunday though granted.
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Old 22 Apr 2017, 08:38 (Ref:3728353)   #38
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Perhaps they're not allowed, and have to stay on a nominated choice.

https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/20...es-sutton.html

Perhaps whatever engine problem took him out of the first race left him down on power for 2 & 3?
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Old 22 Apr 2017, 09:04 (Ref:3728362)   #39
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Perhaps they're not allowed, and have to stay on a nominated choice.

https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/20...es-sutton.html

Perhaps whatever engine problem took him out of the first race left him down on power for 2 & 3?
Or it reinforces my theory that they were allowed to experiment with extra boost on Sutton's car and JP is highlighting how poor their performance will be with out an immediate boost concession.

Probably a similar argument that Motorbase are pushing for too to keep their new sponsor happy.

It's all very marginal with the whole grid being so close now that just a small difference can have huge consequences as is being shown by these two struggling front running teams.

Great to shake it up at the front though and keep it unpredictable

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Old 22 Apr 2017, 09:06 (Ref:3728363)   #40
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Perhaps they're not allowed, and have to stay on a nominated choice.

https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/20...es-sutton.html

Perhaps whatever engine problem took him out of the first race left him down on power for 2 & 3?
Plato's engine message in the interview comes across as clutching as straws IMO. He talks about engines (plural) being down on power - 'Our engines are not producing the power like the rest of them' and then later talks about his own engine possibly being down individually.

If I was looking at their cars performance at Donington in isolation, I would suggest that Sutton's performances show that the car can be competitive with the current CoG measures, and that the issues are possibly down to individual driver/technical matters and not the overall car package.

If all the cars had been given the extra 30-40bhp he is asking for, then Sutton would have scored even better and all the other teams would be asking for more to be done to the Subaru.
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Old 22 Apr 2017, 10:33 (Ref:3728388)   #41
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Sutton has shown that the car is not as bad as it appeared at Brands, so if they just keep concentrating on the car rather than the rules, they should get there. They must be testing in secrecy so they aren't affected by red flags
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Old 22 Apr 2017, 12:15 (Ref:3728412)   #42
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They must be testing in secrecy so they aren't affected by red flags
There are only so many places to test, so doing it in secret would be pretty hard. I'm sure someone spotting a Levorg on track would find it hard to keep quiet.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 17:12 (Ref:3728736)   #43
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The COG equalisation is apparently a sliding scale of two factors ("weight added to the front bulkhead or an increase in the sprung-mass floor height of the car"). My theory is they tried different levels on the various cars and the version on Sutton's car turned out to be best. Then they simply couldn't make the changes to the other cars mid-meeting.
I think they did change Cole onto Sutton's set-up after qualifying... or maybe earlier than that. But he never got the chance to capitalise on it because he was out of race 1 after a couple of corners.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 09:45 (Ref:3728852)   #44
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From Dan Lloyd's Twitter: "Productive Friday getting ready for a busy week away next week. Looking forward to testing at Croft on Tuesday! Lots to work on for Thruxton"

So looks like MG are testing at Croft next week instead
That's great to hear about some testing for MG.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 09:59 (Ref:3728854)   #45
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Id personally like them to bring back the morning warm up for the BTCC cars on race day. It would allow teams to treat it as a mini test session if need be and also allows the punters an extra look at the main event cars for the weekend.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 10:30 (Ref:3728859)   #46
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Id personally like them to bring back the morning warm up for the BTCC cars on race day. It would allow teams to treat it as a mini test session if need be and also allows the punters an extra look at the main event cars for the weekend.
Would certainly provide an opportunity for teams to iron out any last minute gremlins that seem to be quite common these days (you often see a car or two disappear down the pits after the green flag lap). But at tracks with tight curfews, (Oulton springs to mind) the schedule is already tight enough and in light of recent events at Donington it shows how little slack there is even at a place where they can race past 6pm!

Depends what people would rather see, an extra session of BTCC where they're not actually racing and there may only be half the cars on the track at any one time or a bunch of 15/16 year olds scattering bodywork round the place!

On a sort of related note, one thing that's always bugged me is the 'Lunch Break', I know it’s probably of benefit to the marshals as much as anyone else, but aside from them, there's no one else really working continuously. You'd think it was a better idea if the marshals were to take their lunch in shifts and keep the racing going all day.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 10:49 (Ref:3728862)   #47
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On a sort of related note, one thing that's always bugged me is the 'Lunch Break', I know it’s probably of benefit to the marshals as much as anyone else, but aside from them, there's no one else really working continuously. You'd think it was a better idea if the marshals were to take their lunch in shifts and keep the racing going all day.
It's when the pitlane walkabout happens at more than one circuit, and that seems to be growing in importance for spectators. It also gives the folks in race control a break - stewards and clerks have to have time for cake

In terms of marshals and lunch breaks, I'll stop laughing shortly

Seriously: there may appear to be a lot of marshals at BTCC events (and there are usually way more than at club meetings), but that's precisely because (a) it's popular and (b) that number of bodies are sometimes needed to keep to timetable. There still wouldn't be enough to rota people off for lunch, especially in flag/post chief/specialist roles.

Still, good that there's usually a lunch break in the schedule from my perspective.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 14:31 (Ref:3728891)   #48
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It's when the pitlane walkabout happens at more than one circuit, and that seems to be growing in importance for spectators. It also gives the folks in race control a break - stewards and clerks have to have time for cake

In terms of marshals and lunch breaks, I'll stop laughing shortly

Seriously: there may appear to be a lot of marshals at BTCC events (and there are usually way more than at club meetings), but that's precisely because (a) it's popular and (b) that number of bodies are sometimes needed to keep to timetable. There still wouldn't be enough to rota people off for lunch, especially in flag/post chief/specialist roles.

Still, good that there's usually a lunch break in the schedule from my perspective.
Fair do's, perhaps then, there should be something else put on for entertainment for those of us who can't face the hoards down the pit lane! I've since grown out of autograph hunting and would rather get a good look at the cars but you never get close enough, so we haven't bothered going in at the last few meetings.

Maybe they could drag out a few classic racers for some parade laps or something just to break the time up.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 14:45 (Ref:3728892)   #49
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Fair do's, perhaps then, there should be something else put on for entertainment for those of us who can't face the hoards down the pit lane! I've since grown out of autograph hunting and would rather get a good look at the cars but you never get close enough, so we haven't bothered going in at the last few meetings.

Maybe they could drag out a few classic racers for some parade laps or something just to break the time up.
They should do some fast passenger laps or something. Entry ticket ballot etc.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 15:13 (Ref:3728897)   #50
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Fair do's, perhaps then, there should be something else put on for entertainment for those of us who can't face the hoards down the pit lane! I've since grown out of autograph hunting and would rather get a good look at the cars but you never get close enough, so we haven't bothered going in at the last few meetings.

Maybe they could drag out a few classic racers for some parade laps or something just to break the time up.
I wander the Porsche/F4/Ginetta/Clio paddock, which can be (was at Donington for example) open for all to wander, see the teams working and chat to drivers.
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