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23 Jun 2017, 07:16 (Ref:3746190) | #176 | ||
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$10k for a professional grade suspension $5+k for brakes including calipers and rotors $10k for a brand new production crate engine, $100k for a supercars spec racing engine $2+k for an aftermarket engine control unit $20k for a racing sequential gearbox $5k for a mild steel roll cage, more for the Supercars style chrome-moly $1k just for the carbon race seat! Hydraulic jacking system, CNC machined uprights, fabricated control arms etc Plus all the labour hours, shop space, equipment, overheads It all adds up, I think? :/ Even a simple thing like springs: I think Supercars team used to use the Australian-made King racing coilover springs, $150/pair, these days at the top level they probably use the Swift springs (which are lighter and have better tolerances to their nominal spring rate) which are $400-500/pair for springs IIRC. And obviously a supercar team will carry all the spring rates from 3, 4, 5, - 17, 18, 19, 20 kg/mm... That's a lot of pairs of springs! Even TCRs are $150k turn-key, and they are using basic stock block production engines. A question of build quality too... If you look at Brocky's 1993 Advantage Racing VP it's pretty rudimentary, whereas this 2011 Walkinshaw Commodore is beautifully turned out: https://duttongarage.com/Holden-VE-C...Supercar~17768 It's all lots of expensive labour hours! Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 23 Jun 2017 at 07:24. |
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23 Jun 2017, 07:28 (Ref:3746196) | #177 | ||
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It would be focus on the actual participants manufacturers: Holden and Nissan, and design some regulations to meet their requirements. V6 twin-turbo Captiva vs X-Trail? SUVs are where the market is at after all, why hang on to sedans, which are an unpopular segment. |
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23 Jun 2017, 07:40 (Ref:3746199) | #178 | ||
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"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979 |
23 Jun 2017, 07:43 (Ref:3746201) | #179 | ||
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If Ford are interested or not may be irrelevant. besides no one knows if they are interested. Maybe they are just looking for the right arrangment which they have not been offered yet |
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23 Jun 2017, 08:19 (Ref:3746206) | #180 | ||
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Trans-Am 1: Heavily sculpted Vipers, Corvettes, "Mustangs" with much more aerodynamic shape, & also Porsche cup cars for some reason (!?) Trans-Am 2: The Camaros, Challengers and Mustangs with somewhat production shaped fibre-glass bodies, they seem to be more standardised. Trans-Am 3: Production based muscle cars Certainly it could be a good model for Supercars to follow. The Trans-Am 2 class seems to be the closest and most fun. The random mix of cars in Trans-Am 1 seems a bit strange. Trans-Am 3 is probably a bit like improved production or GT4. |
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23 Jun 2017, 08:26 (Ref:3746208) | #181 | ||
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23 Jun 2017, 09:03 (Ref:3746213) | #182 | ||
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GT3 v's Supercar v's SuperTouring- The Ultimate Thread
Costs have to come down regardless of the avenue pursued.
The day of having a number of 100k engines as spares is not sustainable with manufacturer dollars leaving the sport. GT3 engines may be cheaper (they still look expensive) but their service costs are much better then a current Supercar engine. I'm expecting Peckstar to roll in and dump all over this post purely because I mentioned GT3 but you can't hide the fact that costs as they stand are not sustainable. And I'm not suggesting that GT3 engine are the solution. I can appreciate the fact that the top series in the land shouldn't have control engines. As a purist its not right and I'd love to see an all out horsepower war but the reality is this is just not sustainable. Whatever happens next for this category has to be more cost effective. Gone are the days are manufacturers tipping in millions of dollars, Holden wouldn't put in anywhere as much as they used to. Ford don't put in anything and Nissan probably are looking at why have sunk tens of millions of dollars into the category with results that don't reflect that spend. Costs pretty much have to be halved Lap times aren't everything. |
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
23 Jun 2017, 09:34 (Ref:3746220) | #183 | |||
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Given the Audi S3 TCR runs the same engine, I'm seriously not sure how Audi can justify the apparent $300k ask for it! If you could run a road-relevant series with broad manufacturer support based around $150k cars then I think you have something interesting, perhaps if not for fans... |
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23 Jun 2017, 11:46 (Ref:3746234) | #184 | ||
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9GW5WhJLnU Thankfully you can get a JAS-racing Honda Civic Type R instead. |
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23 Jun 2017, 12:11 (Ref:3746239) | #185 | |
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One season old Opel Astra TCR was circa £65K, that I saw.
TCR are apparently a little dirty at Audi for over-pricing the RS3, however Audi feels it's justified in build quality and safety features alone. Not to mention the after sales service you'd get. |
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23 Jun 2017, 12:12 (Ref:3746240) | #186 | ||
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just leave me out of it next time Last edited by peckstar; 23 Jun 2017 at 12:25. |
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23 Jun 2017, 12:33 (Ref:3746244) | #187 | |
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23 Jun 2017, 21:37 (Ref:3746318) | #188 | |
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How do you stop it. Thats the nature of competitive production based racing. Its starts well but manufacturers dont like there brand losing so they build a better car, then the next brand builds a better car and so on. Like in your excample.
Last edited by peckstar; 23 Jun 2017 at 21:46. |
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24 Jun 2017, 17:48 (Ref:3746469) | #189 | |||
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130k Euro = 192k AUD The Peugeot is developed for a one make series and has only a 1.6L engine instead of 2L engine so not fully TCR spec but in TCR Benelux it's competative. |
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24 Jun 2017, 23:29 (Ref:3746546) | #190 | ||
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25 Jun 2017, 00:19 (Ref:3746551) | #191 | |
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5-door Mini in the works, according to another thread on here.
Another car relephant to our market. |
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25 Jun 2017, 08:28 (Ref:3746576) | #192 | ||
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Quote:
http://www.caradvice.com.au/339563/2...e-door-review/ |
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25 Jun 2017, 09:19 (Ref:3746581) | #193 | |
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No, I meant a TCR machine.
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26 Jun 2017, 07:04 (Ref:3746881) | #194 | ||
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Wonderful look here from the supposed top touring car class in the world:
http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/tourin...-de-1796401059 |
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26 Jun 2017, 07:15 (Ref:3746882) | #195 | |
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WTCC is on death's nell anyway.
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26 Jun 2017, 08:26 (Ref:3746892) | #196 | |
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It's supposedly been on it's death knell since about 2010 when BMW and Seat pulled their factory backing out and left only Chevrolet at the front on their own
The series has a strange knack of being able to keep on keeping on as it is, I don't think Eurosport will let it die off |
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26 Jun 2017, 10:32 (Ref:3746918) | #197 | ||
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GT3 v's Supercar v's SuperTouring- The Ultimate Thread
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
26 Jun 2017, 12:50 (Ref:3746947) | #198 | |
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In all fairness, TCR are their main competitor.
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26 Jun 2017, 12:56 (Ref:3746952) | #199 | ||
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The driver is supposed to hit the concrete wall, directly at the end of the runoff. A poorly designed runoff area. |
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7 Jul 2017, 09:12 (Ref:3749398) | #200 | |
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The cost and standardisation of TCR seems compelling compared to the vague details and unproven parity of Supercar's Superutes. It would be a great to see a TCR class featuring cars originally designed to be driven flat-out instead of off-road utility vehicles better suited for towing boats.
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