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Old 12 Sep 2017, 08:57 (Ref:3766211)   #626
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It's OK, current WTCC has no future.
According to recent rumours WTCC is on the verge of switching to TCR regulation for a few years before they can creat the rumoured "bigger, faster, more advanced" category. From the very first time Volvo said they are not interested in building a TCR car, so if WTCC do switches to that regs, Volvo's departure will be formality.
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 09:30 (Ref:3766215)   #627
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According to recent rumours WTCC is on the verge of switching to TCR regulation for a few years before they can creat the rumoured "bigger, faster, more advanced" category. From the very first time Volvo said they are not interested in building a TCR car, so if WTCC do switches to that regs, Volvo's departure will be formality.
But how it works with the TCR International? Two different World championship?
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 09:32 (Ref:3766216)   #628
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But how it works with the TCR International? Two different World championship?
Only one is an FIA world championship...
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 10:57 (Ref:3766239)   #629
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Only one is an FIA world championship...
Yes I know, but the question was if the WTCC based on TCR and the TCR International will both continue in 2018 or there will be only a World championship
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 12:29 (Ref:3766257)   #630
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But how it works with the TCR International? Two different World championship?
No one knows that today. I think they are looking for a solution that is benefitial for both sides. We will see in a few months I think.
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 12:37 (Ref:3766258)   #631
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This case shows again how lame the management of the WTCC.

A serious, professional series has some kind of middle-term agreement with the competitors to make sure to avoid this kind of situations (what Citroen and Lada did or the VW teams did in WEC).

Also a serious and professional series share back the majority of their income (money from broadcasting, advertisment, track license money) to the competitors.
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 12:38 (Ref:3766259)   #632
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No one knows that today. I think they are looking for a solution that is benefitial for both sides. We will see in a few months I think.
I think they have to try to convince the Volvo to stay at least for an another season. Maybe they can oil it with some money.
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 13:15 (Ref:3766273)   #633
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WTCC switching to TCR would be Lotti's ultimate victory. Remember, Lotti always wanted TCR for the WTCC, but Eurosport & Ribeiro didn't agree. Lotti went his own way, and the rest is history.

To be honest, a WTCC with TCR cars ran by factory-teams with factory-drivers would be pretty awesome...
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 13:56 (Ref:3766278)   #634
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They should just merge the two together it will be quicker
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 15:30 (Ref:3766302)   #635
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They should just merge the two together it will be quicker
Agree. Merge with factory teams will mean more drivers and with good circuit based BoP no one will dominate.
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 18:15 (Ref:3766352)   #636
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To be honest, a WTCC with TCR cars ran by factory-teams with factory-drivers would be pretty awesome...
Would love to see that.

Honda, SEAT, VW, Audi, Opel, Hyundai, Alfa, LADA and the unnamed Japanese manufacturer each with two or three cars. Combine that during the European rounds with an ETCC for the privateers and smaller teams.
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 18:27 (Ref:3766356)   #637
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I would rather see a championship fully based on privateers then (which is, unfortunately, impossible under current FIA regulations) in order to bring some stability to the championship.

I also don't think TCR regulations are attractive for factory teams due to BoP and global shifts of manufacturers to electric racing.

Last edited by Rubio; 12 Sep 2017 at 18:32.
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Old 12 Sep 2017, 18:44 (Ref:3766360)   #638
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No need for full factory teams like DTM or WTCC (Citroen, Volvo) but semi-factory teams. Teams like M1RA (Honda), Craft-Bamboo (SEAT), WRT (VW), etc. Factories supplying drivers, promotion and some financial backing.

And yes electric future is a threat for current forms of motorsport.
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 02:57 (Ref:3766426)   #639
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To be honest, if I was the WTCC, I'd do something to make it an EWTCC. (Electric World Touring Car Championship) That might entice some manufacturers and would buy them time with Volvo.

Whatever WTCC does next excluding that, I'd say they're onto a loser. TCR style package would make no sense even as a stop gap and if they do nothing, they're losing manufacturers and nobody's joining back. However, I say this the day after Jaguar announce an I-Pace support series.
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 06:26 (Ref:3766441)   #640
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And yes electric future is a threat for current forms of motorsport.
Going to be unpopular for saying this, but seeing the interest in Formula-E I'd say the electric future is a huge opportunity for the current forms of motorsports. It's the lack of willingness of the public to adapt to new times thats the real threat.
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 09:47 (Ref:3766463)   #641
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Private teams - even the professional ones - usually doesn't have enough money to pay decent professional drivers + factory teams means more glamour/higher rank for any championship.
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 10:02 (Ref:3766469)   #642
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Yeah, at least being factory supported means you've got stable backing
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 11:46 (Ref:3766508)   #643
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Yeah, at least being factory supported means you've got stable backing
...for one year at a time
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 12:55 (Ref:3766531)   #644
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A series full of privateers with pay drivers is not something that should be considered a World Championship.

Watching Trust Fund Baby A beat Trust Fund Baby B isn't fun, nor exciting. You need big names.
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 15:14 (Ref:3766561)   #645
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TC1 has been a total unmitigated disaster for the WTCC. Firstly it priced a load of privateers out of the series, and then Citroen screws over Honda and Lada by forcing them to build new cars a season earlier than planned. I get that S2000 was getting a bit long in the tooth, but to go for an even more expensive and aero-dependent spec of car seemed daft back then and looks even worse now.

Incidentally, can I just add that homologation is a stupid, stupid idea. If someone wants to build a car to the set of rules, they should be allowed to, ala BTCC.
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Old 15 Sep 2017, 14:56 (Ref:3767124)   #646
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This case shows again how lame the management of the WTCC.

A serious, professional series has some kind of middle-term agreement with the competitors to make sure to avoid this kind of situations (what Citroen and Lada did or the VW teams did in WEC).

Also a serious and professional series share back the majority of their income (money from broadcasting, advertisment, track license money) to the competitors.
Without wanting to be the advocate of the current WTCC managament: this is completely not true.

First: it is up to a manufacturer to decided the length of their participation. I Volvo decides to commit for 2 years you cannot force a 4 years contract on them. These days promoters are happy if a manufacturer want to run a full-works program in their championship, so don't think they can argue with them a lot about the length...

Second: look at Porsche. They had a contract for 2018 but still they decided to stop a year earlier. If a manufacturer want to go, it will go, even is there is a contract.

It is an even greater bullshit to think that WTCC does not give back a lot of their money to the series. They do!

One day EEL is criticized for paying to teams or giving them financial dispensations to keep them, than on the other day for not doing that. I also see a lot of mistakes from the current management but this is completely not fair.
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Old 15 Sep 2017, 15:02 (Ref:3767126)   #647
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TC1 has been a total unmitigated disaster for the WTCC. Firstly it priced a load of privateers out of the series, and then Citroen screws over Honda and Lada by forcing them to build new cars a season earlier than planned. I get that S2000 was getting a bit long in the tooth, but to go for an even more expensive and aero-dependent spec of car seemed daft back then and looks even worse now.

Incidentally, can I just add that homologation is a stupid, stupid idea. If someone wants to build a car to the set of rules, they should be allowed to, ala BTCC.
Yes, in hindsight. But I don't remember many people warning WTCC not to introduce TC1 in 2014.

BTW without TC1 WTCC would be dead by now. No manufacturer was interested in S2000 anymore, they could remain a world championship in 2012 because BMW and SUNRED paid the manufacturer entry fee for their customers, and they were accepted as "works". WTCC needed Citroen, needed Sebastien Loeb... And the capitalized on that situation.

Yes, TC1 was a dead end in hindsight but the series had to make a step in 2014.
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Old 15 Sep 2017, 15:04 (Ref:3767130)   #648
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I think they have to try to convince the Volvo to stay at least for an another season. Maybe they can oil it with some money.
But no one said Volvo will quit after 2017!!! There were news that they will not be racing with a petrol car "for a long time". I am sure if WTCC decides to keep TC1 for 2018 Volvo will stay for another year.
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Old 15 Sep 2017, 15:08 (Ref:3767133)   #649
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No need for full factory teams like DTM or WTCC (Citroen, Volvo) but semi-factory teams. Teams like M1RA (Honda), Craft-Bamboo (SEAT), WRT (VW), etc. Factories supplying drivers, promotion and some financial backing.

And yes electric future is a threat for current forms of motorsport.
Yes but it is up to FIA to accept it as a World Championship. At the moment FIA requires two full-works teams to grand World Championship title.
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Old 15 Sep 2017, 18:33 (Ref:3767174)   #650
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Going to be unpopular for saying this, but seeing the interest in Formula-E I'd say the electric future is a huge opportunity for the current forms of motorsports. It's the lack of willingness of the public to adapt to new times thats the real threat.
You have a good point. There is certainly resistance from the "old school" motorsport fans. I understand manufacturers have interest in Formula E but personaly currently it doesn't interest me. One part of this is because in general I have not much interest in single seaters, I prefer tin tops. On the other hand the current technology that is used isn't very interesting. Also in general I don't like cars and format of the series. To some extent it's a shame DTM and SuperGT don't go the full electric route.


I think it's too early for a electric touring car series with open tech rules and a series with multiple manufacturers using spec electric engine and batteries isn't very interesting for manufacturers. First step would be one make series (or VAG cup with same powertrain). Jaguar has announced such series.
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