2017 Dunlop Super2 Series

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

No points, why bother?

90 minutes of live teev coverage?

[one five five]

so making it non-championship was supposed to help put wildcards on the grid for the 1000... why didn't this work? What is stopping teams putting together a Bathurst 1000 effort? Is it just budgets? Is it not desired to have a crack for the sake of racing in the event anymore? Did the limit on entries originally imposed in 2004 with the new pits have a long term effect? Or do we just face the issue that the 1000 really is no longer a race for "extra's", and they should just rule that only VASC REC holders can enter the race.


Maybe an alternative idea to try and get teams to wildcard in the 1000 is to not have a DVS race at Bathurst at all??

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by one five five

so making it non-championship was supposed to help put wildcards on the grid for the 1000... why didn't this work? What is stopping teams putting together a Bathurst 1000 effort? Is it just budgets? Is it not desired to have a crack for the sake of racing in the event anymore? Did the limit on entries originally imposed in 2004 with the new pits have a long term effect? Or do we just face the issue that the 1000 really is no longer a race for "extra's", and they should just rule that only VASC REC holders can enter the race.

Well how do the entry fees for the 1000 compare to 1999 and 2000 when privateer merrily lined up to enter?

The cynic would question whether Supercars have jacked up the entry fee for the Bathurst 1000 massively compared to those days... If so, very poor form from them.

At the very least, surely a 40 car grid can be achieved to put on a better show for punters than waiting for the measly 26 cars to filter back round...

The 105% rule (if in place for the 1000) is also unconducive to the attracting the Rod Nashes and David Thextons to have a crack in the race... Why do all these wealthy amateurs want to race in Australian GT's Endurance Cup instead of the Bathurst 1000, for example? There must be a way to make the 1000 more attractive and get wealthy gentleman and lady racers to front up with their chequebooks to run in COTF cars from gun Super2 squads vacated by their regular Super2 pilots?
"Don't buy a drive in a McLaren at Philip Island, buy a drive in the Matty White Motorsport Altima at Bathurst!" the advertising should cry.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Well how do the entry fees for the 1000 compare to 1999 and 2000 when privateer merrily lined up to enter?

The cynic would question whether Supercars have jacked up the entry fee for the Bathurst 1000 massively compared to those days... If so, very poor form from them.

At the very least, surely a 40 car grid can be achieved to put on a better show for punters than waiting for the measly 26 cars to filter back round...

The 105% rule (if in place for the 1000) is also unconducive to the attracting the Rod Nashes and David Thextons to have a crack in the race... Why do all these wealthy amateurs want to race in Australian GT's Endurance Cup instead of the Bathurst 1000, for example? There must be a way to make the 1000 more attractive and get wealthy gentleman and lady racers to front up with their chequebooks to run in COTF cars from gun Super2 squads vacated by their regular Super2 pilots?
"Don't buy a drive in a McLaren at Philip Island, buy a drive in the Matty White Motorsport Altima at Bathurst!" the advertising should cry.

Supercar teams do not pay entry fees. They have an annual membership fee and no event entry fees.

The enduro rounds are all 107%.

Back in the day, there were wildcards available to development series teams for Bathurst and a non-championship race in their own series. As lead development drivers headed off to main game teams as co-drivers, it was hard for development teams to get the budget and driving crew together for the big race. In those days, it would cost a development series team almost as much to do the Bathurst 1000 as the whole rest of the season, I imagine it's a similar ratio still.

A lot of the issue is cost based. Doing a non-champ longer race at Bathurst can be "the straw that broke the camel's back" in regard to the annual season budget - that additional engine rebuild, gearbox rebuild etc. We do see the same thing in the GT world - some have said that the 12 hour simply adds too much to the season cost for them.

If the Bathurst Super 2 race and 12 hour are both non championship events, then they become optional for teams from a budget point of view.

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

15 Cars Entered For Bathurst 250

Amazing how many cars aren't appearing!

This is BATHURST!!!!

No wildcards stepping up, 15 cars running around in the race.

Making it a non points paying meeting has proved to be one of the greatest dud calls in a long time.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by mayhem

No wildcards stepping up, 15 cars running around in the race.

Making it a non points paying meeting has proved to be one of the greatest dud calls in a long time.

agreed. Seemed pretty predictable too.

All the best Dunlop drivers are signed up to Main game teams and most of them were done by March

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by peckstar

agreed. Seemed pretty predictable too.

All the best Dunlop drivers are signed up to Main game teams and most of them were done by March

I wonder how the person behind this decision is going right now? At least Supercars showed humility in changing it back for 2018, their speed in making the announcement suggests they might be shocked and dismayed at how this has played out.

[Umai Naa]

It was a board decision, apparently.

[mayhem]

Not one of their better moments...

On the positive side, at least the Super 2 series wont be decided until Newcastle...

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by mayhem

I wonder how the person behind this decision is going right now? At least Supercars showed humility in changing it back for 2018, their speed in making the announcement suggests they might be shocked and dismayed at how this has played out.

The Bathurst no-points round doesn't seem to have worked, however the wildcards at other events were a good result.

No mention of the evolution of that program next year...

[mayhem]

I would have thought the non-points paying Bathurst round wasn't related to the opening up of wildcard slots in a few other Supercar rounds?

Was that your point or am I missing something here?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by mayhem

I would have thought the non-points paying Bathurst round wasn't related to the opening up of wildcard slots in a few other Supercar rounds?

Was that your point or am I missing something here?

I think he is wondering if they are related, both were new ideas for this year.

However, IMO, the wild card slot during the season has been a good move and should be kept. Assuming cars continue to want to be involved

Guess time will tell

[one five five]

Originally Posted by mayhem

No wildcards stepping up, 15 cars running around in the race.

Making it a non points paying meeting has proved to be one of the greatest dud calls in a long time.

A race not paying points is not an excuse for not racing

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

A race not paying points is not an excuse for not racing

so why arent you racing?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Doing a non-champ longer race at Bathurst can be "the straw that broke the camel's back" in regard to the annual season budget - that additional engine rebuild, gearbox rebuild etc.

I mean how in the past some amateur racers would be happy to keep their VP Commodore in the shed all year, and pull it out for the iconic Bathurst 1000 with a team of mates and go racing. The two or three drivers sharing the car would indeed be happy to spend their entire year's racing budget for the honour of racing in the Bathurst 1000.

I feel like such racers have been made to feel unwelcome at the Bathurst 1000 by Supercars management.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

agreed. Seemed pretty predictable too.

All the best Dunlop drivers are signed up to Main game teams and most of them were done by March

The type of racer who filled out the last rows of the iconic 55 car 1000s is more likely to be racing in the Kumho series. So how come Supercars didn't make them feel welcome at the 1000, by allowing old generation and setting, say, a 115% cutoff more in line with those applied at the Bathurst 6 hour where (frankly) they probably feel more welcome (hence, perhaps why amateur drivers are more inclined to spend their Bathurst budget racing a Lancer in the 6 hour than a Commodore in the 1000!).

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The type of racer who filled out the last rows of the iconic 55 car 1000s is more likely to be racing in the Kumho series. So how come Supercars didn't make them feel welcome at the 1000, by allowing old generation and setting, say, a 115% cutoff more in line with those applied at the Bathurst 6 hour where (frankly) they probably feel more welcome (hence, perhaps why amateur drivers are more inclined to spend their Bathurst budget racing a Lancer in the 6 hour than a Commodore in the 1000!).

not sure why they would want to do that.

There are other places for people to drive old clunkers around Bathurst - 12 hour and 6 hour.

Record crowds show they are not required at the 1000

[GTRMagic]

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

not sure why they would want to do that.

There are other places for people to drive old clunkers around Bathurst - 12 hour and 6 hour.

Record crowds show they are not required at the 1000

Well there you go! Lack of wildcard entries because they considered "not required". With that attitude, you can see why Supercars didn't get wildcard entries from amateur gentleman drivers who would rather play in GTs and the like...

It rubs off onto the poor Super2 entry list, once the youngsters (the aspiring professionals) mostly desert the field due it being a non-championship round. The amateur gentleman and lady racers would rather race Carrera Cup, GT, Kumho, production cars and the like...

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by one five five

A race not paying points is not an excuse for not racing

Clearly a bunch of Super 2 competitors disagree.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Well there you go! Lack of wildcard entries because they considered "not required". With that attitude, you can see why Supercars didn't get wildcard entries from amateur gentleman drivers who would rather play in GTs and the like...

It rubs off onto the poor Super2 entry list, once the youngsters (the aspiring professionals) mostly desert the field due it being a non-championship round. The amateur gentleman and lady racers would rather race Carrera Cup, GT, Kumho, production cars and the like...

you just changed the topic

your discusion was about racing kumho cars..

supercars dont need kumho cars racing, nor do they want 55 car grids in the race. If they wanted that many they would introduce class racing to make up the field, but that is not there path or their goal

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

I feel like such racers have been made to feel unwelcome at the Bathurst 1000 by Supercars management.

The Bathurst 1000 is a professional race and the place for weekend warriors ended about 20 years ago, often by one of them taking out a race contender.

These weekend warriors don't have the budget, machinery or skills to race at Bathurst or obviously they'd probably be in Super2 or making up a wildcard.

The romance of the old days is long gone.

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Some talk that Ms Angelo could be on the grid too, off the back of this announcement.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Some talk that Ms Angelo could be on the grid too, off the back of this announcement.

Nissan or Falcon?

[Umai Naa]

Tea leaves are suggesting Falcon.