[BTCC] BTCC 2018 Rumours & Silly Season

[S griffin]

Just to let everyone know on ITV4 at 5:05 is the BTCC season review

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

It's a convenient 'distorting' of the rules in NASCAR, but it does allow smaller 'seperate' teams to benefit from the big boys know how. Case in point being Furniture Row this year. No bad thing in my opinion.

I think Eurotech are probably already in this category - and Speedworks have links with TD Hondas in the past.

[BobJones]

Chilton focussing solely on BTCC for next season. Where will his dad's cash land him in order to fight for the title? https://www.touringcartimes.com/2017...pionship-2018/

[CM388]

It's possible that PMR have made or will make decent progress with their Astra in the off-season and the continuity would be good. But if he wants something that will more than likely be competitive out of the box, then maybe a 3rd Dynamics Honda?

[S griffin]

Anyone who can win on the world stage deserves a chance anywhere, even if WTCC is nothing like the glory days

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by CM388

It's possible that PMR have made or will make decent progress with their Astra in the off-season and the continuity would be good. But if he wants something that will more than likely be competitive out of the box, then maybe a 3rd Dynamics Honda?

Would be good to see Tom in a top motor; I reckon in the right machinery he could give pretty much anybody a fight.

[Steel Wheels]

I could see PMR upping to 3 cars, there seems to be enough interest of budgeted drivers for them. Could even see JP there if he hasn’t lost all his backers to BMR like he has with Adrian Flux!

I think Huff might end up replacing a retiring Matt Neal, seems there is supposed to be a ‘retirement’ announcement.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Steel Wheels

Could even see JP there if he hasn’t lost all his backers to BMR like he has with Adrian Flux!

I know I commented in the past that Adrian Flux appeared to be getting behind Sutton more (which was understandable given the title situation). But have they actually 'dropped' JP altogether?

[BtccLee]

If Dynamics are building new Civics, do we reckon they could prepare 4X so two for them and two for Eurotech? Obviously dependant on what Simpson does...

[psq43]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

If Dynamics are building new Civics, do we reckon they could prepare 4X so two for them and two for Eurotech? Obviously dependant on what Simpson does...

As long as Eurotech have got over half a million quid, I don't see why not

But as they don't officially represent Honda, and longevity is part of NGTC, there is probably no need. If it ain't broke...

[luckn002]

Adding to the rumours -

Nathan Harrison on Twitter - 'After narrowly missing out in competing in the BTCC this year me and the team are working hard to make the dream a reality next year!'

'Liked' by Tony Gilham who's also just tweeted - 'Lets see what this week brings for our @DunlopBTCC plans #3togo'

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

If Dynamics are building new Civics, do we reckon they could prepare 4X so two for them and two for Eurotech? Obviously dependant on what Simpson does...

According to the register - there are currently seven NGTC Civics. Only one of these is newer than 2012. Neal's car was 5 years old, and Simpson's was 6 years old in 2017.

So when we look at the 'new' Civic for 2018, TD will probably use the existing chassis', with possibly one new build. As previous years, Eurotech will likely keep their existing chassis', but have them updated to 2018 spec - if their agreement with TD is still in place.

If TD have only built one new chassis since 2012, can't see them building four for 2018?

[S griffin]

I am really look forward to coming announcements, looks like we have nothing to worry about in terms of quality compared to last season

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So when we look at the 'new' Civic for 2018, TD will probably use the existing chassis', with possibly one new build.

If TD have only built one new chassis since 2012, can't see them building four for 2018?

I understand they will be new chassis for next year. Don't know yet if that means just the Dynamics pair or if there will be additional new cars.

They built 5 for the start of 2012 (2x Dynamics, 2x Eurotech, 1x spare) so capacity to build multiple new cars is not an issue.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I understand they will be new chassis for next year. Don't know yet if that means just the Dynamics pair or if there will be additional new cars.

They built 5 for the start of 2012 (2x Dynamics, 2x Eurotech, 1x spare) so capacity to build multiple new cars is not an issue.

I hope my post didn't come across as being critical of TD's ability to build multiple cars. As you say, the pace that they produced the bulk of current NGTC Civics shows that.

It's just that some of those 2012 builds have, in their time, been a 9th Gen Civic Hatch, Civic Tourer and 4th Gen Civic Type R. With that in mind, they have form in transferring parts to new builds - and the chassis is not really such so it doesn't fit their past practice to build new cars to be a 5th Gen Type R?

If they do build new, my guess would be that the main pair would get those, Simpson would get the 2017 build and Eurotech would get upgrades....

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It's just that some of those 2012 builds have, in their time, been a 9th Gen Civic Hatch, Civic Tourer and 4th Gen Civic Type R. With that in mind, they have form in transferring parts to new builds - and the chassis is not really such so it doesn't fit their past practice to build new cars to be a 5th Gen Type R?

Road car wise they were pretty much the same thing; the Dynamics Type R was basically *exactly* the same as the hatch. The road going standard hatch and Type R had a greater number of different components.

The estate was pretty much the same too; so the "different" Dynamics racers were more akin to an actors "costume changes". Probably being a bit uncharitable in that assessment.

The new Civic is a totally different beast; compare the road car with its predecessor and they are as different as Marilyn Monroe and Barry White. New chassis up so they are busy busy. 4 and a bit weeks to Autosport isn't it?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Road car wise they were pretty much the same thing; the Dynamics Type R was basically *exactly* the same as the hatch. The road going standard hatch and Type R had a greater number of different components.

The estate was pretty much the same too; so the "different" Dynamics racers were more akin to an actors "costume changes". Probably being a bit uncharitable in that assessment.

The new Civic is a totally different beast; compare the road car with its predecessor and they are as different as Marilyn Monroe and Barry White. New chassis up so they are busy busy. 4 and a bit weeks to Autosport isn't it?

I imagine there is less commonality between a Toyota Avensis and a Mercedes A-Class than there is between Civic Type R Generations. But the running gear from Wrathall's 2011 Avensis became Morgan's 2014 A-Class.

Just for my own understanding (and not to be difficult), if the Type R that was ran by TD, and the Civic hatch were so similar - why did Jeff Smith make such a deal over their 'upgrade' in 2016?

'We have been impressed with the performance of the new Type R this season run by Team Dynamics and feel it is the logical way to progress forwards,’ said Smith. “We have negotiated a deal with Dynamics to enable us to run the latest car'

My understanding of an NGTC build is that the subframes are supplied and built to a TOCA standard. Therefore, any difference in chassis between road cars has no bearing on the NGTC product.
The difference will be how the subframe is 'paired' to the road car - and so TD could re-use the NGTC chassis components in the next Type R, and not need to build new.

[Craner Curves]

Has to be new chassis. They were advertising for fabricators a few months ago. WSR appear to be preparing a new shell too, either as a fresh car for someone or a spare.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I imagine there is less commonality between a Toyota Avensis and a Mercedes A-Class than there is between Civic Type R Generations. But the running gear from Wrathall's 2011 Avensis became Morgan's 2014 A-Class.

Running gear means the sub-frames and suspension, which are common parts and interchangeable between all cars (obviously not the same FWD vs RWD).

Chassis means the mostly the rollcage which isn't interchangeable.

Just for my own understanding (and not to be difficult), if the Type R that was ran by TD, and the Civic hatch were so similar - why did Jeff Smith make such a deal over their 'upgrade' in 2016?

Backdoor support from Honda? Looks better to the sponsors to be running the latest shape? Better aero? No different to Speedworks running facelift version of the Avensis this year.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Running gear means the sub-frames and suspension, which are common parts and interchangeable between all cars (obviously not the same FWD vs RWD).

Chassis means the mostly the rollcage which isn't interchangeable.

So - if I am understanding this correctly.

In an NGTC car, the shell is 'fitted' to the rollcage, rather than the other way round?

If so - then given that the chassis, suspension and running car have no connection to the road car - what would prevent TD using their existing chassis' with the new Type R (if the shell is physically large enough)?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

In an NGTC car, the shell is 'fitted' to the rollcage, rather than the other way round?

If so - then given that the chassis, suspension and running car have no connection to the road car - what would prevent TD using their existing chassis' with the new Type R (if the shell is physically large enough)?

Think of NGTC as being closer to a space-frame where you hang the body over the cage, rather than a traditional race car where the cage and body become a single item. That's a little over-simplified, but you get the idea.

The old Civic hatch / Type R /Tourer were effectively the same car with minor sheet metal changes. The new Civic is a different space - not as tall but with a longer wheelbase, so wouldn't fit over the existing chassis.

[BLiTZ]

Honda-wise I'm expecting:

2x TD FK8 Type R's for Neal and Shedden
1x TD FK2 Type R for Simpson (Using whichever is the newest/least bent from last year) with the potential for a switch to an FK8 later in the season. Unless they get a 3-car sponsorship deal I can't see them running a '3-(identical)-car' team (remember in 2016 they were only 3 cars as Neate stumped up the money to be there, I don't think Halford's cash would have paid enough alone).
2x Eurotech FK2 Type R's - Can't see them stumping up the cash for new shells when their's aren't in too bad shape (and still competitive in the right hands).

Sure it'd be great to see 4x FK8's as per the 4 brand new hatches in 2012 but I just don't see it happening this year unless, as others have said, Eurotech (or another team, speedworks perhaps?) move under TD's stable roof and form a '2x2-car' team.

...Ingram in a Civic, hmm...

[Ry44]

http://www.britishgt.com/news/310

Ok so kind of BTCC related Will Burns is moving to British GT so that frees his seat from this year up in Team HARD

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Think of NGTC as being closer to a space-frame where you hang the body over the cage, rather than a traditional race car where the cage and body become a single item. That's a little over-simplified, but you get the idea.

The old Civic hatch / Type R /Tourer were effectively the same car with minor sheet metal changes. The new Civic is a different space - not as tall but with a longer wheelbase, so wouldn't fit over the existing chassis.

OK -thanks for that. I think I've got my head around it all.

I guess the biggest problem with any attempt to re-use their existing chassis' is the height?

They do have one 2017 build, so perhaps that would be the one that falls Simpson's way. As others have said, it is probably up to Eurotech to fund new builds if they want a new Type-R.

[S griffin]

I wish Will Burns luck, shame he couldn't really show what he could do last season with his season ending early. Hope he does well in British GT