[VASC16R1R2R3] Clipsal 500 Adelaide

[velly4]

People I feel most sorry for are the fans who spent hard earned money on what transpired. I understand the idea behind the race finishing at news time but they are ripping off the track goers with these timed finishes.

[socram]

Not posted in here before but a comment that 'it will never happen again' misses the point. If it happened once, it could happen again.

Taken to the extremes, either the race runs for the full duration or it doesn't. If it doesn't and the race had to be declared before any car managed the 140 litre fuel drop, then what? Penalise everyone 30 seconds?

Cricket has a methodology when an innings is affected by rain so surely, a simple calculation could have been worked out in advance, as rain is always a possibility.

I must admit, I wasn't concentrating 100% and fast forwarded through much of it, but it seemed odd that the Volvo was taking a stop (fuel or problems?) when the cars were on the last lap, so when did they actually announce that it would be 49 laps? I missed that, so I apologise if I missed what you all know.

[Terry S]

An objective view of the fans interest in a race meeting is the number of views on Natsoft Race Results for that meeting.

In respect of this annual Clipsal meeting the views are falling rapidly":
2013....92,000
2014....87,000
2015....81,000
2016....73,000

I know figures can be interpreted in many ways, but I think these figures show a clear trend, down, down, down

[Compromised]

Not sure what to take from the natsoft numbers but I know it's not very popular with the younger demographic - the emergence of speedcafe, Facebook, Twitter etc has certainly taken views from natsoft

[Samwhk]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Im not satisfied with sundays race , im dounnbtful anyone would be satisfied with sundays race, the weather and the time certain finished killed it, well maybe nick percat and LDM are happy.



But thats just what happens with live sport. It cant be managed, thats part of the enjoyment of it



Like i keep saying, even the most average punter, knew it was 140 litres. It was well explained. Commentators and especially the laughing buffoon were a big part of the problem with creating confusion.



Imagine if they just said "cars must put in 140 litres or they will be penalised a minimum of a pit late drive through" instead of "cars must put in 140l or something "might" happen we dont know what but it could be x or y or z "



However it was the first time this has happened, we now know, wont happen again

But....

It could've been managed, by not running it so god damn late that it becomes time certain. Do that, and all the other issues from that race disappear. Yes? No?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Samwhk

But....

It could've been managed, by not running it so god damn late that it becomes time certain. Do that, and all the other issues from that race disappear. Yes? No?

Actually the lateness of it is not really an issue, finished at 5.20 in adelaide, heaps of time still to race from a daylight point of view

The issue is having time certain races, no matter when they start, I don't like them, far from ideal, funnily enough a few months back the posters on here were raving about a time certain race. Then laps didnt matter, can be ten hour of red, 1 hour of yellow and 1 hour of racing and the fans would be happy with the finish time

[Samwhk]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Actually the lateness of it is not really an issue, finished at 5.20 in adelaide, heaps of time still to race from a daylight point of view

The issue is having time certain races, no matter when they start, I don't like them, far from ideal, funnily enough a few months back the posters on here were raving about a time certain race. Then laps didnt matter, can be ten hour of red, 1 hour of yellow and 1 hour of racing and the fans would be happy with the finish time

Totally different type of race Pecky, and you know it. Also, none of the 12 hour fans would be happy with the scenario you just made up.

If a race is meant to be 78 laps, it should run for 78 laps, yes?

From what I understand, neither of the channels in Oz had news they have to cut to, and here in NZ, the entire weekend was broadcast live on its own dedicated channel, so why did it need to be time certain?

Time certainty, when the race is not a timed race, is short changing the fans who pay good money to watch the "premier" category of motorsport in our neck of the woods.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by peckstar

It doesnt stop slick pit work at all, as we say yesterday, errors still happen. But it creates parity between the brands

You are aware i assume that the cars actually would need to make pit stops in this race anyway? This just forces them to put in a certain level of fuel.

a side effect is that its also means teams dont run their cars excessively lean which reduces engine wear and cost as some were trying to do

The technical regulations should provide the parity. Sporting regulations should not.

Plenty of sports attempt to equalise the competition eg the draft in the AFL. But few if any try to equalise once the game begins.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Im not satisfied with sundays race , im dounnbtful anyone would be satisfied with sundays race, the weather and the time certain finished killed it, well maybe nick percat and LDM are happy.

But thats just what happens with live sport. It cant be managed, thats part of the enjoyment of it

Like i keep saying, even the most average punter, knew it was 140 litres. It was well explained. Commentators and especially the laughing buffoon were a big part of the problem with creating confusion.

Imagine if they just said "cars must put in 140 litres or they will be penalised a minimum of a pit late drive through" instead of "cars must put in 140l or something "might" happen we dont know what but it could be x or y or z "

However it was the first time this has happened, we now know, wont happen again

Yet the average punter either trackside it or watching on TV had absolutely no idea how much fuel each car has taken.

If the fuel drop is so critical to the outcome of the race why is the data inaccessible to TV commentators, spectators and TV viewers?

Which other sport hides away such vital information? Sorry we can't bring you the crickey scores today - the teams keep it a secret and will only be revealed, maybe, at the conclusion of this test match.

If we have to continue with this rule then for goodness sake let us know what the score is.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

sure, what your idea, thats simple and easy to understand

Neil Crompton gave us the answer on Inside Supercars tonight. The differences that were there in 2013 are no longer there, the engines are all quite close, the rule should be abolished

You heap s*** on the GT Championship for their artificial pitstop rules, yet defend V8Supercars who are effectively doing the same thing when it comes to pitlane, they artificially manipulate the pitstops so nobody gets upset.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

Neil Crompton gave us the answer on Inside Supercars tonight. The differences that were there in 2013 are no longer there, the engines are all quite close, the rule should be abolished

You heap s*** on the GT Championship for their artificial pitstop rules, yet defend V8Supercars who are effectively doing the same thing when it comes to pitlane, they artificially manipulate the pitstops so nobody gets upset.

Think ive been saying that since Sunday, Reckon Crompton is just copying me (maybe im crompton)

so you cant see the difference between making cars equal (like both V8s and gT3 do) and making drivers equal (which only the gT3 do)?

[Matt]

Time certain races are dumb.

They all should be done the Bathurst way, it's gonna run x amount of laps regardless of how long it takes.

Either make the races times or to laps, not switching between the two in the middle of it.

[Compromised]

If the engine's in regards to fuel efficiency are close (as Crompo has confirmed) then abolish the fuel drop regulation.

It was needed, now it's not. You should have the smallest amount of rules you can get away with

[CDM]

Originally Posted by one five five

Neil Crompton gave us the answer on Inside Supercars tonight. The differences that were there in 2013 are no longer there, the engines are all quite close, the rule should be abolished

You heap s*** on the GT Championship for their artificial pitstop rules, yet defend V8Supercars who are effectively doing the same thing when it comes to pitlane, they artificially manipulate the pitstops so nobody gets upset.

I actually quite like the pitstop & strategy side of a V8SC race and lets be fair its wayyyy different to the CPS in AGT.

AGT have a timed CPS time which certainly dictates the outcome of the races, no doubt about that.

V8SC have a CPS (or more), but the faster & more strategic you can be, the faster you can go. Forget about what happened at the weekend, but I mean a mistake in a V8SC stop can significantly hinder a competitor, whereas there are rarely mistakes in AGT as the pressure simply isn't there.

I think that a pro-rata system for the V8SC fuel would be an easy solve of the problem, but totally agree that time certain races are hugely disappointing for everyone (except LDM in this case).

[William5]

why can't V8s start later in the day and go twilight / night for Superevents of the Supercar season. It worked for TV audiences but I still think it should happened this year or 2017.

What struck me, how can any be classified as they all should be DNFs or no points awarded what so ever. It goes to show they were making up as they go on the Sunday. Was Mark Dutton spot on when he said the race hadn't started until lap 6 which was when actual racing got under the way

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by William5

why can't V8s start later in the day and go twilight / night for Superevents of the Supercar season. It worked for TV audiences but I still think it should happened this year or 2017.

What struck me, how can any be classified as they all should be DNFs or no points awarded what so ever. It goes to show they were making up as they go on the Sunday. Was Mark Dutton spot on when he said the race hadn't started until lap 6 which was when actual racing got under the way

why no points? you didnt say why you think that! Rules say full race points at 50% race distance. Rules also said 78 laps of one lap after 5.15 local time, whichever comes first

And no Dutto was in error when he said the race didnt start until lap 6, they had made an incorrect assumption

[William5]

Originally Posted by peckstar

why no points? you didnt say why you think that! Rules say full race points at 50% race distance. Rules also said 78 laps of one lap after 5.15 local time, whichever comes first

And no Dutto was in error when he said the race didnt start until lap 6, they had made an incorrect assumption

The way I read it, under the V8s own rule book has said under 13.2.1.3 - which states quite clearly "must have covered at least seventy-five percent (75%) of the distance covered by the winner" they clearly didn't as they would've needed to do 59 Laps. Therefore no one is a winner and Mark Dutton must've been talking about some other rule in another rule book

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by William5

The way I read it, under the V8s own rule book has said under 13.2.1.3 - which states quite clearly "must have covered at least seventy-five percent (75%) of the distance covered by the winner" they clearly didn't as they would've needed to do 59 Laps. Therefore no one is a winner and Mark Dutton must've been talking about some other rule in another rule book

D13.2 is classification

D13.2.1.3 the last bit as quoted says distance covered by the winner
The winner did 48 laps, so to be a classified a finisher you had to complete 36 laps.

That is not the rule you are looking for

What you are looking for is rule D15.4.4 and D15.4.5 which refer to the 50 percent of the scheduled race distance/duration

[one five five]

Originally Posted by William5

why can't V8s start later in the day and go twilight / night for Superevents of the Supercar season. It worked for TV audiences but I still think it should happened this year or 2017.

Did it work for TV audiences?

Mr Warburton was keen on them and they tried twilight races at Homebush in 2013 and Adelaide in 2014, but haven't been repeated since. Presumebly if they were deemed a success this format would have continued?

[Umai Naa]

Actual night racing would probably work though.

[Gaz170]

Don't like the 140 litre rule, but as other here have said it was the rule and I'm surprised it caught so many out.

[Terry S]

I still don't understand the penalty for not putting the 140L in.

Apparently it can be either 30 seconds or 60 seconds depending on the circuit. Why that should matter I don't understand.

If it was in the sup regs for Adelaide as 30 seconds why was it hours later changed to 60 seconds?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Terry S

I still don't understand the penalty for not putting the 140L in.

Apparently it can be either 30 seconds or 60 seconds depending on the circuit. Why that should matter I don't understand.

If it was in the sup regs for Adelaide as 30 seconds why was it hours later changed to 60 seconds?

can anyone understand penalties

Chaz turns a driver around, 15 point penalty. SVG takes out the leader (to the benefit of his team mate) no penalty

[peckstar]

Prodrive pushes for Adelaide safety changes

regarding Chaz's car

“It was very superficial under the bodywork,” said O’Toole of the damage to the Supercheap Ford.
“Had he crashed it on Saturday we would have fixed it on Saturday night quite easily and been out of there by 10 or 11 o’clock.”

[chavez]

Originally Posted by peckstar

can anyone understand penalties

Chaz turns a driver around, 15 point penalty. SVG takes out the leader (to the benefit of his team mate) no penalty

This is no logic to it at all.

I know this won't be popular but the solution is to cease penalising for contact and leave it the drivers hands.

Short term expect carnage.



Long term, once the teams suffer on-going cost of repairs and drivers realise that if you treat someone fairy they'll treat you that way too.

Remember NASCAR has few penalties for on track indiscretions (except if you are Matt Kenseth) and the amount of blatant bumping to pass is less than the myth around it might have you believe.

But to repeat, short term it would be carnage.

The cure at the moment is worse than the disease.