1970's & 80's Super Saloons & Special Saloons (merged)

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by big andy

out of the the cars on the front cover of ccc 1974 i think only one still exists the daf of alan minshaw its just been rebuilt by lynxe AE

My brother Chris and I raced in some Super Saloon races from 1974 to 1976 in a 1.8 litre BDA (later 2.0 litre FVC) Ford Escort. I can identify some of the cars on the CCC cover:

Red/Gold Escort - Tony Sugden's Brookhire carwith 2.0 litre BDA
White Cortina - Peter Shelton's car with 4.7 Ford V8
Capri No.65 - Bill Cox with 7.6 Chevvy V8
Capri No.4 Red Rover could be Dennis Nott or Tony Strawson - both had big V8 Chevvies.
Car No.2 -Mick Hill's Boss Capri
68 - This could be the Skoda driven by John Turner who previously raced a BRM engined Escort.
18 - This could be the Sunbeam Rapier 5 litre GV8 driven by Martin Kent
10 - Could be John Pope's John Pope Special
163 - Gerry's Big Bertha, of course.
1 - Tony Hazlewood's DAF, prior to Alan Minshaw ownership.
The light blue Escort towards the back in the middle could be Doug Niven's Boss Escort.
Chevvy Corvair - Ian Richardson with rear mounted 8 litre Chevvy V8. This car was virtually a Lola T70. It was later owned by Gerry marshall who reckoned it was the only car capable of beating Baby Bertha. It was offered for sale by Gerry in 1977, I think, and Chris and I went to see it at a farm in Bedfordshire or Hertfordshire after meeting Gerry in a local pub. He drove us there in his road car - what a ride! The Corvair was fired up and Chris drove it round the farm road for a few minutes - fantastic - but it overheated before I could drive - sh.t! In the end we didn't buy it as we couldn't raise the asking price and it was later owned by an american car importer from Leicester, I believe. It's probably been turned back in to a Lola T70 by now.
The Escort Chris and I had now resides in Ireland where it is advertised as a 'Broadspeed' Escort. This is only partly true as it was a brand new Broadspeed prepared shell they kept as a Group 5 racing spare and we purchased it from Broadspeed in 1975/6 when they closed down. Most of the suspension was works Ford racing spec - compression strut front (I still have some beautiful adjustable tca's), watts linkage rear. We had a Jack Knight 5 speed box and the 1800cc BDA and it was just ready for the 1975 British Grand Prix support race at Silverstone in the middle of July. However we only completed four laps in the race before it overheated.

Peter Wray

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by HoTWire

GBRM : can you PM me your and Joe's contact details please.. very very keen to have both Baby Bertha and Old Nail there.. in either a static or running capacity, both cars have such a great history and will certainly be a highlight for many people to see them in the flesh.


Does anyone know if Colin Hawker's DFVW is still alive? Or did it get stripped down to parts? Do any of Mick Hill's cars exist any more, specifically the Skoda and the Beetle?

Last I heard of the Beetle it was run by Jeff Wilson from Newcastle. I think he acquired it from Doug Niven.

[rcarr]

I was speaking to Walter Robertson at the last race meeting, he told me that his DFVVW had been made back to the original car, from memory I think he said it was the Duckhams Group 6 car and the Skoda that he had was made back into the "Chocolate Drop" which it was underneath anyway.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by rcarr

I was speaking to Walter Robertson at the last race meeting, he told me that his DFVVW had been made back to the original car, from memory I think he said it was the Duckhams Group 6 car and the Skoda that he had was made back into the "Chocolate Drop" which it was underneath anyway.

I think the DFVW was based on the DeCadenet.

[rcarr]

Walter told me it was the Duckhams car designed by Gordon Murray.

Weren't there 2 anyway?

The Duckhams car became the ADA, but the ADA "Morris Minor" became the 1st Ecosse. Which was destroyed in 84.

[big andy]

the DFVW was definarely a DeCadenet

[rcarr]

Oh well! Walter must be wrong, considering he owned and raced it for a while!

Most de Cadenets are Lolas anyway! Or based on them at least! The original de Cadenets were based around the a Lola chassis.

[driftwood]

DFVW car is now in france restored as Duckhams car it was not really a De cadanet
B26 Chevron Chocolate drop is racing actively last seen at Retro show on a stand
Beetle is now a pile of parts the suspension was Trojan F5000 and taken off to rebuild a car
the remains are with someone who i cannot recall at present
Mick Hills BMW M1 car was lolaT400 based car its now rebuilt as F5000 car in NZ

De cadanet cars
Please see chassis archive on history thread u will get the full story there so i will not repeat that story here except
Duckhams car was not made into ADA morris minor !

Richard simms skoda GAA was march 74S DFV car now racing today again as march 74s with DFV

Buncombes super chimp was B19 or 21 car now 2 litre car racing again in Orwell

[rcarr]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Duckhams car was not made into ADA morris minor !

I know, my mistake!

[Speedy norm]

The cover of the CCC mag IMHO shows:
Front row John Turner 5L Skoda Mick Hill Capri 6.0
Secod Row I Richardson Corvair Big Bertha Daf T Hazlewood
Third Row dennis Knott Capri Chev ??? John Pope Aston Martin magnum T Strawson Capri ex M Hill
Fourth Row ??? Geoff Wood lowline Escort Martin Kent Sunbeam Rapier (rebodied Gordon Keeble)

Not convinced Doug nven is at the back but stand to be corrected.
Wasn't the Corvair based on a Mclaren M8 rater than a Lola T70??

[driftwood]

The cover of the CCC mag IMHO shows:
Front row John Turner 5L then arther collier had the car?Skoda Mick Hill Capri 6.0
Secod Row I Richardson Corvair Big Bertha Daf T HazlewoodI dont think tony had corbeau sponsorship that was colin Foly`s company tony had westwood mowers ( his brothers firm) on the car then DT minsha ran the car for a few years
Third Row dennis Knott Capri Chev ??? John Pope Aston Martin magnum T Strawson Capri ex M Hill
Fourth Row ??? Geoff Wood lowline Escort Martin Kent Sunbeam Rapier (rebodied Gordon Keeble)

Not convinced Doug nven is at the back but stand to be corrected.
Wasn't the Corvair based on a Mclaren M8 rater than a Lola T70??

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Speedy norm

The cover of the CCC mag IMHO shows:
Front row John Turner 5L Skoda Mick Hill Capri 6.0
Secod Row I Richardson Corvair Big Bertha Daf T Hazlewood
Third Row dennis Knott Capri Chev ??? John Pope Aston Martin magnum T Strawson Capri ex M Hill
Fourth Row ??? Geoff Wood lowline Escort Martin Kent Sunbeam Rapier (rebodied Gordon Keeble)

Not convinced Doug nven is at the back but stand to be corrected.
Wasn't the Corvair based on a Mclaren M8 rater than a Lola T70??

Absolutely right - it was an M8. Fantastic car and well put together. Does it still exist?
Can't quite make out where the shot was taken and if it was just before a Super Saloon race.
Could be wrong (again) but it doesn't look like Geoff Wood's Escort. Wasn't he from Skegness or Cleethorpes area?

[driftwood]

Corvair was last owned by martin ?? linked to DB motors in nottingham area
i recall it being for sale early to mid 80`s maybe ran once twice in Donington GT races back then
I think Tony strawson ran it a few times as well
The DAF has been rebuilt by tony hazelwood in his factory not Lynx they may have done the rolling road part
Tony had Ian Richardson ( corvair owner) do his engine rebuild for the DAF

[driftwood]

Corvair was last owned by martin ?? linked to DB motors in nottingham area
i recall it being for sale early to mid 80`s maybe ran once twice in Donington GT races back then
I think Tony strawson ran it a few times as well
The DAF has been rebuilt by tony hazelwood in his factory not Lynx they may have done the rolling road part
Tony had Ian Richardson ( corvair owner) do his engine rebuild for the DAF

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Capri No.65 - Bill Cox with 7.6 Chevvy V8
Capri No.4 Red Rover could be Dennis Nott or Tony Strawson - both had big V8 Chevvies.
Car No.2 -Mick Hill's Boss Capri

Peter Wray

Sorry - I had a bit of brain fade. No 65 is Dennis Nott and no.4 is Bill Cox.
Peter

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Corvair was last owned by martin ?? linked to DB motors in nottingham area
i recall it being for sale early to mid 80`s maybe ran once twice in Donington GT races back then
I think Tony strawson ran it a few times as well
The DAF has been rebuilt by tony hazelwood in his factory not Lynx they may have done the rolling road part
Tony had Ian Richardson ( corvair owner) do his engine rebuild for the DAF

I remember when the Corvair first appeared. A stunning machine, beautifully put together. It had problems in practice at it's first race and started at the back. I think it was up to about 3rd or 4th by the end of the first lap! Ian Richardson overtook half the field in the length of the Silverstone Club Straight. Brilliant

[driftwood]

I recall this Corvair style was a notoriously bad handling road car does make u wonder why u would take a sows ear and try to make a silk purse from it
OK they fitted Formula suspension to the car to make it a "better" car
Would be interesting to hear why Ian went with this car when say a Mustang worked well or Ford escort Capri would have been a better proposition

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by driftwood

I recall this Corvair style was a notoriously bad handling road car does make u wonder why u would take a sows ear and try to make a silk purse from it
OK they fitted Formula suspension to the car to make it a "better" car
Would be interesting to hear why Ian went with this car when say a Mustang worked well or Ford escort Capri would have been a better proposition

Because it wasn't really a Corvair. It just looked vaguely like one. The Corvair was suitable as it was a rear engined car.

[driftwood]

Yes i appreciate the concept of using Corvair rear engined car as rules where plus minus 1 inch on wheel base silohouette shape car etc engine gbox in same position as road car hence DAF 33 Imps skodas as special saloons

but the Corvair was not a popular car with this bad reputation attached it does seem a clutching at straws decision when say a big engined Capri or Mustang with Lola /mclaren corners could have been a better concept to work with
Corvair was a large heavey shell as well
Look at Tony Hazelwoods Jag xj6/12 car
he said it would not stop even with the F5000 corners and brakes fitted!!

OK we are now better informed about shells roll cage postions strengths plus suspension geometry dynamics areodynamics tyres
These guys where Pioneers and we cant take that away from them !!

[Speedy norm]

The Corvair may have been steel shelled with some fibregalss panels but underneath it was a Can Am Mclaren, Thes cars quite cheep at the time and with no category to compete in.
There was a book published about the Corvair as a road car entitled "unsafe at any speed" They had a tendancy to turn over at the sight of any corner. Cornering of course something the Americans never thought to develop in their road cars.

The CCC cover photo was taken on the Hanger straight and was staged for the magazine article. How I wish my dear mother had not thrown it out!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Speedy norm

There was a book published about the Corvair as a road car entitled "unsafe at any speed" They had a tendancy to turn over at the sight of any corner. Cornering of course something the Americans never thought to develop in their road cars.

Wasn't the book written by Ralph Nader, a long time enemy of the American Automobile Industry? (No, not CCC, Unsafe at any speed!)

[Al Weyman]

Cornering of course something the Americans never thought to develop in their road cars.

Sorry but when in my 70 Camaro I am pushing Capris to go faster through the bends I cannot agree with that. My later IROC as a standard road car officially pulled more G in a corner in independant tests than the then (87) current model Ferrari. This all harps back to the big old cosy saloons not the sportier models.

[COLIN STUBBS]

Right Al but they did make some really dangerous cars and if you read Unsafe at any speed its painfully obvious that they needed to sort it out. dont forget that was in the late fifties/early sixties when Corvairs fell over at the slightest turn.Bit like those little Merc people carrier things did just a few years back.........

[rcarr]

Originally Posted by COLIN STUBBS

Right Al but they did make some really dangerous cars and if you read Unsafe at any speed its painfully obvious that they needed to sort it out. dont forget that was in the late fifties/early sixties when Corvairs fell over at the slightest turn.Bit like those little Merc people carrier things did just a few years back.........

Oi Colin! No! The A-Class Mercedes was not actually on public release when it failed the "elk test" they were all the test cars that the press were allowed to write reports on.

I can tell you now, that the production A-Class is perfectly safe and won't fall over no matter how hard you push it!

Thank you

Richard (An A-Class owner and Mercedes fanatic)

[GBRM]

If anyone is interested I have 1 or 2 photos of the Corvair when Dad owned it; was a very dark blue colour, not a navy, a bit more green maybe, probably what I would say was a Tyrrell blue. Bad description I know!!

If someone can tell me how to post them I will do so.