Kick Those Shoes Off and Relax. It's the Delta 2017 Tea Break

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Its not about racing cars, sorry for that ami Robert, but did you have the Renault 14 on your market? How was it nicknamed?

I'll get in first! Yes, UK had the Renault 14 but I don't recall it having a nickname.

On the subject of Renault, I had a look at a friends' new Talisman the other day. It's the first time I've really had a look at one & I must say I thought it rather impressive, a real move upmarket. It does seem wide though; the owner works in Lille & says it's not ideal in town.

[Gerard C]

John, as you must have notice by yourself even a Twingo is not an easy job in the parking lots they built in the center of Lille. And if you go for the Euralille one, you've better note the place because its huge! Isn't Talisman proposed with a AWS?
In France when they introduced the R14, the advertising company named it "la poire". And in street French "être une poire" means something like being daft enough to buy one. Not really the recipe for a success…

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

John, as you must have notice by yourself even a Twingo is not an easy job in the parking lots they built in the center of Lille. And if you go for the Euralille one, you've better note the place because its huge! Isn't Talisman proposed with a AWS?
In France when they introduced the R14, the advertising company named it "la poire". And in street French "être une poire" means something like being daft enough to buy one. Not really the recipe for a success…

On the subject of car names, I presume you do know your Capri was originally going to be called, I think, Caprona, until someone discovered that is Sicilian for goat dung? Or so the story goes.

I haven't worked up the courage to drive in Lille - it's a nightmare, it's got more bus lanes than London!

It's very easy to get there by train from St Pol, or at least it was. The last time I went, just before Christmas, the first half of the journey as far as Bethune was by bus, due to engineering works on the railway. That is still the situation & some people here are saying the rail service will never return, which would be a pity. The bus ride was very nice, but only once as it takes a long time, visiting all the little rural stations on the route. I did gain a new-found respect for bus drivers though, as he had to manoeuvre in some very tight places.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

John, as you must have notice by yourself even a Twingo is not an easy job in the parking lots they built in the center of Lille. And if you go for the Euralille one, you've better note the place because its huge! Isn't Talisman proposed with a AWS?
In France when they introduced the R14, the advertising company named it "la poire". And in street French "être une poire" means something like being daft enough to buy one. Not really the recipe for a success…

I had an R14 as a company car for a few months. Thought it was great.

Before that with a previous company I had a 12.

After the 14 I had an 18 for a while. I enjoyed that as well.

[Gerard C]

Grant can't believe you're a previous happy Renault user! Was it a French company or a personal choice?
What i've been told about Capri name is that they planed to call it Carla, hence the Recaro fish net seats name, Carla.
And yes now, we gonna get a Bauble's attack, probably not with a violin or harmonica but with a full size piano Ã* la mode de Jeremy Clarkson…

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

John, as you must have notice by yourself even a Twingo is not an easy job in the parking lots they built in the center of Lille. And if you go for the Euralille one, you've better note the place because its huge! Isn't Talisman proposed with a AWS?
In France when they introduced the R14, the advertising company named it "la poire". And in street French "être une poire" means something like being daft enough to buy one. Not really the recipe for a success…

Talking of parking Renault Twingo's, I've just noticed there is a race on the programme at Croix's Coup de France meeting titled 'Twin Girls'. Perhaps parking is part of it??

[Mike Bell]

GP, you were a glutton for punishment!

The model I always liked and could happily own now is the 16- especially a TX.

See loads of Talisman saloons and the odd estate on autoroute travels. Nice. Regie seem to have re-found their mojo.... The formerly ubiquitous Pug 508 autoroute cruiser seems to have fallen out of favour.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

GP, you were a glutton for punishment!

The model I always liked and could happily own now is the 16- especially a TX.

See loads of Talisman saloons and the odd estate on autoroute travels. Nice. Regie seem to have re-found their mojo.... The formerly ubiquitous Pug 508 autoroute cruiser seems to have fallen out of favour.

Funny you should say that - I've long had a hankering for a Renault 16, I even came close to buying one in about 1972.

Don't see too many at classic car events even here but there are a few nice ones around.

[delta]

If I recall right the 14 and the 16 helped me fund my racing as we were always taking out the gearboxes . I had a good mate who would replace the syncro on second gear then I would refit the box . Happy days .

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by delta

If I recall right the 14 and the 16 helped me fund my racing as we were always taking out the gearboxes . I had a good mate who would replace the syncro on second gear then I would refit the box . Happy days .

Ah, you're home? Think the 16 engine and box were t'other way round to normal, if normal is 'North South'......

[delta]

Yep back home thanks mike and it's very nice . I expect by the weekend I will be itching to go racing again .

[Gerard C]

I guess your North/ South thing means vice et versa, Mike? Yes, the 16 was gearbox first and mid-engineered with the engine fitted "into" the bulkhead. First aluminium engine for the Régie and a very clever solution to make room in the trunk, you could move the rear seat up to the roof lining and make profit with a flat floor. This model got the success it deserved certainly helped by the TS version.
Delta is right, Renault gearboxes have always been slow and fragile (Porsche and Simca too).

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

GP, you were a glutton for punishment!

The model I always liked and could happily own now is the 16- especially a TX.

See loads of Talisman saloons and the odd estate on autoroute travels. Nice. Regie seem to have re-found their mojo.... The formerly ubiquitous Pug 508 autoroute cruiser seems to have fallen out of favour.

Well, the 12 (provided new) was better than the leggy Mk3 Cortina (about 60k miles iirc but that was a lot back then.)

That was flogging lubricants for ELF so as the fleet was changed everyone got Renaults partly because the Renault dealers were supposed to use ELF oils and there were lots of deals to be done for cheap "loans" to get new equipment for the workshops.

The 14 and the 18 happened because after ELF I was in the garage trade (Motor Caravans mainly) and the parent company had a couple of Renault dealerships at the time.

Never had a problem with the 14 or the 18 although as you might imagine they were not kept for long before being sold on.

We also had a R4 van (interesting) and for a while I have the random use (but mine out of hours and at weekends) of an R6 which was often interesting to travel in as the push-pull gear change through the dash had a habit of popping off its connection (I use that term loosely - very loosely most of the time) under the bonnet.

On the plus side as it sat just under the bonnet, it was easy to get to and reconnect. One became quite proficient quite quickly. But for that the 6 was quite interesting. The problems was that to make it motor a bit in a straight line (corners were fun at any speed) required some swift gear changes ... I'm sure you will all see the problem there ....

Way back just after I got my licence a friend of my parents rolled up for a visit in his newish R16 TS. He was silly enough to ask me If I wanted to take it out for a drive.

Nice car for the times. I didn't push it as he was sitting alongside and it took me a while to feel in any way comfortable with the column shift. Nevertheless it still felt good in the comfort stakes as well as performance compared to my old man's Cortina GT.

[Gerard C]

Very nice souvenirs you brought here, reading you pops many things. The interesting moving part at rear of the R4 van, was called le "girafon", the gear lever was also called "parapluie" lets say umbrella style. The good balance between road holding, comfort and inside room offered by the 16 was the basis of its success, the TX and the 5 speed gb came too late. The parapluie lasted till the first series of 5. Do you remember that the R4/6 wheelbase was different from left to right? I guess the 4L Trophy which is 20 years old is not known in UK.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by grantp

I had an R14 as a company car for a few months. Thought it was great.

Before that with a previous company I had a 12.

After the 14 I had an 18 for a while. I enjoyed that as well.

Grant, were the Renaults you were given some sort of numerical indication of your rise up through the company?

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Ah, you're home? Think the 16 engine and box were t'other way round to normal, if normal is 'North South'......

I know that the original Lotus Europa used the Renault 16 engine, did it also use the Renault gearbox (but then I suppose that would have given it 1 forward and four reverse gears unless it was turned the other way up)?

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Very nice souvenirs you brought here, reading you pops many things. The interesting moving part at rear of the R4 van, was called le "girafon", the gear lever was also called "parapluie" lets say umbrella style. The good balance between road holding, comfort and inside room offered by the 16 was the basis of its success, the TX and the 5 speed gb came too late. The parapluie lasted till the first series of 5. Do you remember that the R4/6 wheelbase was different from left to right? I guess the 4L Trophy which is 20 years old is not known in UK.

Due to our on & off relationship with Renault, beginning with the R16 engine in the original Europa, we often had a few Renault company cars at Lotus. We had a few Renault 5's at one time & they were certainly more reliable than the awful Mk3 Cortina's.

Later on, Team Lotus had a couple of Renault 4 vans & during the Lotus 78/79 era one was actually pressed into service with Perspex mock-up fuel tanks in the back to see how fuel surge worked whilst the van lurched & rolled its way round the Hethel test track.

Hope you are enjoying your Assumption Day holiday, Gerard. More like the end of the world here with thunder, lightning & the occasional monsoon!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Very nice souvenirs you brought here, reading you pops many things. The interesting moving part at rear of the R4 van, was called le "girafon", the gear lever was also called "parapluie" lets say umbrella style. The good balance between road holding, comfort and inside room offered by the 16 was the basis of its success, the TX and the 5 speed gb came too late. The parapluie lasted till the first series of 5. Do you remember that the R4/6 wheelbase was different from left to right? I guess the 4L Trophy which is 20 years old is not known in UK.

The 4 wheelbase did not seem to be too obviously different but the 16 and the 6 were very obvious - especially the 16 which was clearly asymmetric. All to do with using the same rear suspension parts both sides apparently.

The rear number plate location was another styling "cue" - usually non central to accommodate the fuel filler.

I not long after I got the 12, a few weeks only, we were on holiday in Scotland around this time of year - the Edinburgh Festival was on although it was not the huge event then that it later became. It was a very wet day and as we arrived in the city late in the afternoon we discovered the Festival and the resulting shortage of accommodation.

We had with us an American guy who was hitch hiking around the UK as part of his European tour and ended up meeting up with him a couple of times during the week we were there - I think he found a ready lift fitted his adaptable plan to see quite a lot of Scotland in a few days.

He was planning to stay at the University Halls of Residence as rooms were available cheaply to travelling students in the vacation. So we were driving round making out way there on the early evening and pouring rain and the car started to mist up. I turned on the rear screen de-mist which, iirc, had a 20 minute cut out, and thought no more about it until, suddenly, there was a loud bang and the screen shattered. Not great on a Friday evening with several hundred miles to travel home over the weekend.

We dropped him off at the University, found a rather dodgy B&B for the night and the next day found a Renault dealer with Service open on a Saturday morning.

As I recall they were in possession of a new rear screen which was fitted and we were able head off on the planned journey south later that day.

A few weeks later I changed employer and left the 12 to some lucky new user so I have no idea how well it lasted with further use and abuse.

Our involvement with the Renault dealers (and the rather short service periods - 3k miles for oil changes on the 12 iirc) meant that we got to know some of them quite well. Especially the one near where I lived at the time. I had also used them for keeping the Cortina running. That was a regular visitor for other reasons.

They had a customer with an R30 who had managed to get through 3 clutches with only 600 miles on each one. The Service Manager was a pretty capable guy running a good team. They were convinced that it was a driver problem but had no clear way to prove it but, as you might imagine, Renault were not at all happy with the warranty claims.

[Mike Bell]

I do believe the Europa used a Renault gearbox along with the engine. Don't forget it was used in single seater racing as well (unless it was just the gear train), although not very successfully.....

Didn't the 16 also have torsion bar rear suspension with one w/base longer than the other? It was a Renault thing at the time!

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I do believe the Europa used a Renault gearbox along with the engine. Don't forget it was used in single seater racing as well (unless it was just the gear train), although not very successfully.....

Didn't the 16 also have torsion bar rear suspension with one w/base longer than the other? It was a Renault thing at the time!

Yes Mike, the Europa used the Renault 16 gearbox, retaining the original ratios, although the engine itself was modified.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Grant, were the Renaults you were given some sort of numerical indication of your rise up through the company?

Sadly no the 12 was just an earlier job.

The 14 a little more permanent then taking something from the used car trade-in pool that still had road tax at the time. It was relatively newly released and I suppose there were some deals for getting them registered and on the road.

The 18 was also a recent release and was a branch demonstrator for a sunroof the company imported from the USA and which I ended up selling and training fitters across the central part of the England and Wales.

By taking the back seats out of the 18 I could get 10 sunroof kits in so once a client had been persuaded to sign up with an initial order for 10 I would load the car, make the delivery and show the fitter(s) how the job was done.

As I recall the next car up in the range at the time was an R20 and there was no way that anyone below director or Branch General Manager level was going to get one of those.

It was strange how the Renault naming convention back then left people assuming that the name automatically related to status. It sort of did in terms of the vehicle range at the time but not really fully and certainly not by job role until one got to the 20 and 30.

When that job came to a sudden end the next presented me with a high mileage, well used 1500 (iirc) Maxi for a year or so. That put things into perspective.

[VIVA GT]

I remember a TV advertisement for the Renault 30 (or maybe the 20) that featured a well known British racing driver. It showed him getting into the car & driving along a journey whilst the voice over extolled the virtues of the car. As he stopped at some road works traffic lights they were describing the performance of the fuel injected engine, the driver was blipping the throttle & there were shots of the exhaust pipe. Alongside the stationary car was a British Bobby on a bicycle who knocked on the window and uttered the brilliant lines: "Who do you think you are, Stirling Moss?" Who of course he was.
Renault obviously used an imaginative advertising agency at this time as I also remember an advert for the R20 in the Sunday Newspaper magazines asking "How many Albert Hall's can you get into the Renault 20?" Lower down the page was a picture of a very large gentleman who was apparently called Mr Albert Hall, and using him they showed how roomy the car was.
Anyway, it must be time now for my medication...

[bauble]

This has got very, very boring again.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by bauble

This has got very, very boring again.

Perhaps for you- not our fault you're a Vauxhall-only man!

[Gerard C]

More or less same weather down here, John, bar the thunder. Were you involved in the racing prototype Lotus made once for Citroën?
We've been always amazed by Citroën adverts, a long time tradition starting with the Eiffel Tower. Nasty people use to say that the better the advert was the worse the cars became… Throwing a Visa from an airplane carrier is an example…

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Perhaps for you- not our fault you're a Vauxhall-only man!

Such a deeply relevant, and fascinating subject as this has developed into, really requires a thread all to itself. There you aficionados of obscure models, engines, gear ratios, essential modifications etc., etc. could spend many a happy hour discussing your passion for the terminally uninteresting to your hearts content, with out boring the pants of the more balanced amongst us.

I have been forced to say this before, but ...WHERE ARE THE MODS WHEN YOU NEED THEM???