V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow'

[on_to_it]

Goat Boy - A lot of what you say, I believe, is pretty much on the money. But I think you miss the point with some of the support classes. You can't fill a days program with fast, loud cars - there are not enough of them. So you need support classes to fill the day, and why should those classes be excluded anyway. They have National Championships to compete in too.

Also, the young guns coming out of karts need to start somewhere, and for many that was always Formula Ford. But you need to know what you are doing with them to run at the front, regardless of the drivers talent, or you pay someone else to run it. Unless those fathers have very deep pockets, these kids need to attract sponsors to help with the bills, and most sponsors want quality TV coverage that airs at the right time, that people will actually watch. They want Hot Laps and decent crowds. That means Tier 1.

Some of these youngsters will become future NZV8 stars and maybe go even further. A few of them are bloody outstanding. But they can't just start in that class and expect to be competitive, they have to do their time. So think about it: without support classes and new blood coming through, the sport will run out of cars, drivers and sponsors.

[FraserGT]

"the TRS, was dumped out of Tier 1 by MNZ/TMC"

With the current economic climate in New Zealand and the reduced number of competitors that are coming through the junior classes TRS has to look at who their "customers" are.

Toyota committed to Motorsport New Zealand for 10 years. They have run 7 of those 10 years already.

Toyota NZ and Toyota Racing Management did a great job attracting overseas competitors for the last season.

For this season TRS is running 5 rounds over 5 weekends in a row to attract more overseas competitors. Because of this there are two rounds which are not part of the "Tier 1" series. This is what TRS negotiated with TMC in the interests of Toyota being able to supply their customers what they wanted. TRS was not dumped by MNZ/TMC.

TRS are still at three rounds of the Tier 1 Summer Series, including the NZGP and Manfeild in February.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by FraserGT

"the TRS, was dumped out of Tier 1 by MNZ/TMC"

With the current economic climate in New Zealand and the reduced number of competitors that are coming through the junior classes TRS has to look at who their "customers" are.

Toyota committed to Motorsport New Zealand for 10 years. They have run 7 of those 10 years already.

Toyota NZ and Toyota Racing Management did a great job attracting overseas competitors for the last season.

For this season TRS is running 5 rounds over 5 weekends in a row to attract more overseas competitors. Because of this there are two rounds which are not part of the "Tier 1" series. This is what TRS negotiated with TMC in the interests of Toyota being able to supply their customers what they wanted. TRS was not dumped by MNZ/TMC.

TRS are still at three rounds of the Tier 1 Summer Series, including the NZGP and Manfeild in February.

Don't get me wrong here, I love the TRS, it's been the best thing to happen to NZ motorsport for a long time, and I am pleased to hear that the NZGP will be included in a Tier 1 event this season. But that hasn't been the case for the last couple of seasons, has it, much to my dismay.

I think these days (especially over here in NZ) it's really hard to get enough money to fnd a drive in one of these events, but that doesn't really explain why the club grids are so very well filled (example: BMW E30 has to be run in 2 separate races due to numbers!)

[FraserGT]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Don't get me wrong here, I love the TRS, it's been the best thing to happen to NZ motorsport for a long time, and I am pleased to hear that the NZGP will be included in a Tier 1 event this season. But that hasn't been the case for the last couple of seasons, has it, much to my dismay.

TRS is still very much a Tier 1 class. They have not competed at Pukekohe for the past few seasons because of the damage to the cars with the bumps. This then makes the round at Ruapuna a bit of an odd ball at the end of November before racing starts again in mid January.

TRS was at the Teretonga, Timaru, Manfeild and Taupo rounds as part of their 2011 season. They also had a stand alone round at Hampton Downs to make up the five rounds for the series.

Anyway, this is off topic. As much as TRS has shown success in growing their grids by getting quality overseas drivers during the northern hemisphere winter, this is supposed to be about V8STs.

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Goat Boy - A lot of what you say, I believe, is pretty much on the money. But I think you miss the point with some of the support classes. You can't fill a days program with fast, loud cars - there are not enough of them. So you need support classes to fill the day, and why should those classes be excluded anyway. They have National Championships to compete in too.

Also, the young guns coming out of karts need to start somewhere, and for many that was always Formula Ford. But you need to know what you are doing with them to run at the front, regardless of the drivers talent, or you pay someone else to run it. Unless those fathers have very deep pockets, these kids need to attract sponsors to help with the bills, and most sponsors want quality TV coverage that airs at the right time, that people will actually watch. They want Hot Laps and decent crowds. That means Tier 1.

Some of these youngsters will become future NZV8 stars and maybe go even further. A few of them are bloody outstanding. But they can't just start in that class and expect to be competitive, they have to do their time. So think about it: without support classes and new blood coming through, the sport will run out of cars, drivers and sponsors.

OTI, i am far removed from what is happening on your side of the pond, but from what i have read on here, with the removal of the TRS, goes against every good point you raise above.

The TRS, along with the V8's and Porsches, got weekly updates in the motorsport media over here (when there was a round the preceeding weekend). In fact i believe the TRS was considered above the others, especially as a breeding ground, and many Australian observers proclaimed the benefits of having something similar here to replace the flagging F3 competition.

So if it was this good, and helped develop the current breed of NZ drivers in Europe and the US, as well as a few drivers in the tin tops here, why was it culled?

EDIT: maybe FraserGT's response answers my query...

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Goat Boy - A lot of what you say, I believe, is pretty much on the money. But I think you miss the point with some of the support classes. You can't fill a days program with fast, loud cars - there are not enough of them. So you need support classes to fill the day, and why should those classes be excluded anyway. They have National Championships to compete in too.

Also, the young guns coming out of karts need to start somewhere, and for many that was always Formula Ford. But you need to know what you are doing with them to run at the front, regardless of the drivers talent, or you pay someone else to run it. Unless those fathers have very deep pockets, these kids need to attract sponsors to help with the bills, and most sponsors want quality TV coverage that airs at the right time, that people will actually watch. They want Hot Laps and decent crowds. That means Tier 1.

Some of these youngsters will become future NZV8 stars and maybe go even further. A few of them are bloody outstanding. But they can't just start in that class and expect to be competitive, they have to do their time. So think about it: without support classes and new blood coming through, the sport will run out of cars, drivers and sponsors.

I hear what you are saying, on_to_it, but the question remains why Tier 1 for this sort of thing? Why can't we have TRS, and GTRS, and Muscle Cars (entertainment value), Porsches (perhaps an open class) and yes Formula Ford but leave the Production Cars, Suzuki Swifts and Utes for Tier 2 events? Surely you should get to watch the fastest cars at the premier events?

Karters and other youngsters do need to go somewhere, but that is Formula Ford and TRS generally, until they find there is not a lot of opportunity for open wheel drives overseas unless you:

a) are very fast like Mitch Evans and/or

b) have big money behind you as well (like Scott Dixon did and even then he wasn't able to get an F1 drive apart from that one test)

But go along to a club meet or the NZ Festival of Motorsport and you will see very, very full grids and far more interesting racing than the classes I have been moaning about.

The NZV8's in their current form were great back in their day, but the grid numbers now are small compared to what they were (I remember 32 cars on the grid!!) and the support classes have been gradually whittled away because more and more of them were getting to be faster than the main attraction! Let's face it, when the NZV8's were only the third or fourth fastest cars on the day (behind TRS, GT3 and SuperGT as it was) then that's not a good look is it? Even if the racing was good, which it was.

As to watching it on TV, does anyone actually sit and watch these other classes on TV? Maybe the Utes because it's not apparent on TV just how slow they are, but I reckon for the others many of us would go and make a coffee or grab another beer...

[MS Fan]

Just to add to on_to_it comments, from a pure racing point of view it is not always the loud noisey classes that provide the best racing. Some of the support classes, some of the time, provide better racing than the high profile classes. It not just about outright speed.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by MS Fan

Just to add to on_to_it comments, from a pure racing point of view it is not always the loud noisey classes that provide the best racing. Some of the support classes, some of the time, provide better racing than the high profile classes. It not just about outright speed.

Absolutely correct, and that may answer one of your questions Goat Boy. Some of the best racing I have watched has been in the Swift class and even some V8 Supercar guys were blown away at how hard and how well those boys raced at Hamilton last year.

Sorry, I'm way of-topic so I'll get off my horse now

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Absolutely correct, and that may answer one of your questions Goat Boy. Some of the best racing I have watched has been in the Swift class and even some V8 Supercar guys were blown away at how hard and how well those boys raced at Hamilton last year.

Sorry, I'm way of-topic so I'll get off my horse now

Sorry, off topic again (can we start a new thread on this maybe?) - I have never at any stage called into question the quality of the racing or the abilities of its many fine young drivers. I am, however, calling into question the calibre of the machinery that they are racing in - do I want to pay to watch cars that look and sound like sewing machines doing 150 km/h down the back-straight of Pukekohe (but with close racing) or would I rather watch Kenny Smith take his F5000 down there at 300km/h? I think you know what I'm going to say there...

If I want just close racing I'd rather go watch the karts...

[mountainstar]

There is no question that you need crowd pleasing support classes and also some for up and comers to prove their worth.

I have thought about this and already some rancor that has been demonstrated with waving around threats of lawsuits et al, that can't we all get along?

I propose a Super V8 weekend.

V8 Supertourers and NZV8's run their own races on the same weekend at the same track along with a GT class, F5000 and whatever local supports people want as North and South Islands have some different series.

It will be an orgy of V8's for a weekend, costs can be split and everyone should be happy.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

There is no question that you need crowd pleasing support classes and also some for up and comers to prove their worth.

I have thought about this and already some rancor that has been demonstrated with waving around threats of lawsuits et al, that can't we all get along?

I propose a Super V8 weekend.

V8 Supertourers and NZV8's run their own races on the same weekend at the same track along with a GT class, F5000 and whatever local supports people want as North and South Islands have some different series.

It will be an orgy of V8's for a weekend, costs can be split and everyone should be happy.

Good concept and I'd go. But isn't that pretty much what should have been on offer at Tier 1. Surely the best thing would have been installing the NZST class as the new "Premier" class and running the NZV8's separately, almost as a feeder class. If you can fund the move up, great. Otherwise stay with your current NZV8 as it seems a number still want to do. I suspect one of the major causes for the split was the goings-on with the dynamic duo at TMC amongst other things, but that's a whole new thread really. So once again, isn't the controlling element money?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Good concept and I'd go. But isn't that pretty much what should have been on offer at Tier 1. Surely the best thing would have been installing the NZST class as the new "Premier" class and running the NZV8's separately, almost as a feeder class. If you can fund the move up, great. Otherwise stay with your current NZV8 as it seems a number still want to do. I suspect one of the major causes for the split was the goings-on with the dynamic duo at TMC amongst other things, but that's a whole new thread really. So once again, isn't the controlling element money?

Money, power, control, not always bad things. Competition improves the breed often. NZ motorsport I think needs a bit of a jolt.

I've been to race meetings around the world, the ones I've been to in NZ, including Tier 1, have been a bit flat or low key. I'm not saying it's bad, just that a lot could be done on marketing and promotion to take it to another level. People have disagreed with me in the past, but I think more could be done to create a better show that will draw TV and crowds to the track.

V8 Supercars has been successful in doing that, often before V8SC you'd draw 5000 people to a race. They put on a good show and event and it brings people in.

You go to any town that has a Nascar race, year round and you will have no doubt there is a track nearby and a Nascar race every year.

[on_to_it]

Money, power, control, not always bad things. - It just depends who's in charge!

Competition improves the breed often. NZ motorsport I think needs a bit of a jolt. - Agreed

V8 Supercars has been successful in doing that, often before V8SC you'd draw 5000 people to a race. They put on a good show and event and it brings people in. - Oz is a very wealthy country with massive resources; they have many advantages over NZ.

You go to any town that has a Nascar race, year round and you will have no doubt there is a track nearby and a Nascar race every year. - Money again, we can't compete on that scale.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Money, power, control, not always bad things. - It just depends who's in charge!

Competition improves the breed often. NZ motorsport I think needs a bit of a jolt. - Agreed

V8 Supercars has been successful in doing that, often before V8SC you'd draw 5000 people to a race. They put on a good show and event and it brings people in. - Oz is a very wealthy country with massive resources; they have many advantages over NZ.

You go to any town that has a Nascar race, year round and you will have no doubt there is a track nearby and a Nascar race every year. - Money again, we can't compete on that scale.

No doubt, I was just using them as examples that a lot could be done to draw more to the sport. I'm not expecting 100,000 people to turn up, but it could be better.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Money, power, control, not always bad things. - It just depends who's in charge!

Competition improves the breed often. NZ motorsport I think needs a bit of a jolt. - Agreed

V8 Supercars has been successful in doing that, often before V8SC you'd draw 5000 people to a race. They put on a good show and event and it brings people in. - Oz is a very wealthy country with massive resources; they have many advantages over NZ.

You go to any town that has a Nascar race, year round and you will have no doubt there is a track nearby and a Nascar race every year. - Money again, we can't compete on that scale.

I have to pull you up on points 3 & 4. The fact that there is more money in Oz is a cop-out - loads of people use that excuse. We used to get huge crowds back in the 60's to motorsport events - there was less to do then for sure, but motorsport hardly gets on the radar here these days, whereas rugby gets huge coverage. It's not just about the money, it's about the media too.

As Mountainstar says, it's huge event when NASCAR comes to town, why not the V8's? Get the local council behind it, the local radio station, we can do it!!

[on_to_it]

Goat Boy - you're entitled to disagree, as am I.

New Zealand was a prosperous country in the 60's and there was far less competition for the entertainment dollar. New Zealand has all sorts of money woes at the moment and there are no quick-and-easy solutions either. And I don't think you can compare Rugby with motorsport in NZ, they are just on different levels.

The scale of motorsport in Oz, the money that circulates around it and the sheer numbers applying to just about everything else associated with it gives them a huge advantage.

I like your enthusiasm but she's a hard road!

[E36ST]

Discounting ticket prices isn't the answer in my opinion. If the ST's are putting on a quality show then people will be prepared to pay a reasonable entry price. Last I heard was that they were thinking of a $30 weekend pass which seems ridiculously low & on a par with the previous Tier 1 meetings. Even with these previous rounds the drivers were managing to obtain and sell on weekend entry passes for as little as $15.

Makes it fairly difficult for the circuit owners to use income from the gate takings to invest in new infrastructure and upgrading facilities.

Personally I'm not all that impressed with the underhandedness (is that a word?) that has gone on with the creation of this ST class but if what I hear is correct that one of their meetings next year (October) will be an endurance race featuring big name international drivers (Dixon, Franchitti, Whincup... etc) then that can only be a good thing for motorsport in NZ.

I just hope they don't f... I mean screw it up by cutting the bones out of ticket pricing, or in any other way for that matter. Hopefully now that it's here (well, almost) it will be rolled out in a professional manner.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by E36ST

Discounting ticket prices isn't the answer in my opinion. If the ST's are putting on a quality show then people will be prepared to pay a reasonable entry price. Last I heard was that they were thinking of a $30 weekend pass which seems ridiculously low & on a par with the previous Tier 1 meetings. Even with these previous rounds the drivers were managing to obtain and sell on weekend entry passes for as little as $15.

Makes it fairly difficult for the circuit owners to use income from the gate takings to invest in new infrastructure and upgrading facilities.

Personally I'm not all that impressed with the underhandedness (is that a word?) that has gone on with the creation of this ST class but if what I hear is correct that one of their meetings next year (October) will be an endurance race featuring big name international drivers (Dixon, Franchitti, Whincup... etc) then that can only be a good thing for motorsport in NZ.

I just hope they don't f... I mean screw it up by cutting the bones out of ticket pricing, or in any other way for that matter. Hopefully now that it's here (well, almost) it will be rolled out in a professional manner.

It's not really the discounting thing I was getting at - it's more making it easy for a huge number of people to buy (or at least think about buying) tickets - even if it gets discounted just the once (even 25%), and twice as many people go, hopefully if the racing is good enough and the entertainment is of a high standard, then a portion of the "newbies" who haven't been before will feel compelled to go again.

I still don't see why we can't put on a show almost as big as the V8 Supercars, just using a little more ingenuity to try and get the word out to as many potetial fans as possible.

Here's another idea (that I had some years ago) - how about getting the V8 drivers into local schools - bet the kids would be pressuring their parents to buy tickets then! Or have a race car in a shopping mall, and have a ticket stand there next to it with someone like Boothy or Johnny Mac or Kayne there bigging it up. Have a big screen TV there showing tight racing, burnouts and spins - you'll pull the punters every time!

Mobile phones! There's another avenue! How about a V8 app for iPhones? you can follow a driver and get news updates on their progress. Or a basic game? There are just so many ways to get the word out there!

Why not a V8 Roadshow? Put a car or two and a bunch of drivers into a big flash transporter and visit the hosting town a week or two before the event? Drivers and teams can take it in turns to do the appearances. Get the radio stations to track where the show will be and point the kids to it (it's all about the kids). As above, visit schools, malls, town centres, wherever there are people.

These are the sorts of things we wanted TMC to adopt years ago, but no avail...

I just want to see motorsport flourish in this country!

[Biggy G]

Supertourers have confirmed that the central muscle cars will join them at HD. Read it today on the speedshow website.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Biggy G

Supertourers have confirmed that the central muscle cars will join them at HD. Read it today on the speedshow website.

for all the ST rounds? i see the CMC are still doing IRC, MG meets and the Tier 1 round @ Manfeild.

[Biggy G]

From here promax:

http://www.speedshow.co.nz/Murph-and...l-ticket-offer

McIntyre also confirms that the opening round on 17 to 19 February will feature three V8ST races with support classes now scheduled to include the Central Muscle Car series.

“V8SuperTourers can let fans know that the first support category to be confirmed are the popular, ground shaking, V8 muscle cars of the Central Muscle Car series. A full field of Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, Falcons, HQs and more will add plenty of excitement to the premiere event with 4 races over Saturday and Sunday.

[promax]

i knew CMC would be @ the February ST meet.. just haven't seen them confirmed @ the rest of the ST rounds.

[Biggy G]

OK, just answered your question with the knowledge from the release. If they didn't mention the other rounds then they must not be locked in as of yet.

Not sure they CMC would travel all the way down to Ruapuna though? Why not approach the local OSCA class or Historic Touring Cars.

[Just Do It!]

It will likely make a mockery of both camps, to be fair.

The concern for most people is how do those who have already paid for a V8 SuperTourer come out of this?

The car is out of Speedshow which will create a myriad of controversy aimed right at the target markets of both series.

Problematic....probably isn't the right word!

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

The concern for most people is how do those who have already paid for a V8 SuperTourer come out of this?

Do you really think anyone has actually paid for one? I would doubt that very much.