Formula ford 2013.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by sceptic

In 2003 Westley Barber was banned from racing in F Ford again because they didn't want him dominating.

Barber wasn't permitted to race as he was the reigning champion. Obviously Cammish doesn't fit into this category. Also, 2003 Formula Ford was contested by 30+ drivers, which puts the championship in a stronger position when accepting (or not) entries.

As such, the only possible means to exclude Dan Cammish would be either on a) age (which would also mean excluding Jayde Kruger and Fred Martin-Dye as well); or b) driving experience (which would also mean excluding Andy Richardson and Kruger). Both moves would leave the championship even shorter on cars.

As such I'd contend that the current state of play means that onus is on the other teams/drivers to raise their game to beat Cammish. In the interim, one can't help but admire Cammish for maximising his opportunity and hope that he can move onwards to something higher up the ladder (be it in single seaters, saloons or GTs) in 2014.

[Redracer77]

Originally Posted by sceptic

In 2003 Westley Barber was banned from racing in F Ford again because they didn't want him dominating.

Dan Cammish shouldn't be in F Ford this year. It wouldn't surprise me if his dominance wasn't at least part of the reason some of the other drivers have dropped out. However talented you are, there's no point wasting money racing in a series where you are going to be finishing every race 20 seconds behind someone with six years more experience.

This may sound harsh, but being a successful racing driver these days is about more than just the number of points you score or trophies you win. You need to be able to raise the money to progress to the next level. If you can't do that, then this isn't the career for you, because every year there's another group of increasingly younger, hungry, well-funded drivers, pushing you further away from a long career.

6 years experience for Dan....... that is not correct. Dan did 2 years in Ford in 2009 and 2010. In 2011 he raced 1/2 season in UK Formula Renault and still beat Josh Hill in the Championship on a budget that wouldn't really be enough to do Class A North West Formula Ford... In 2012 he was injured in the 1st race of the season and didnt race again that year. So in terms of racing experience Dan is on par with most of the guys in Ford.

I dont see anyone complaining that James Abbott has done about 30 races a year for the last 3 years....

People always want to knock winners. Dan has won all the races this year as he is the best driver in the best car and he hasn't made any mistakes at all.

Lets get behind talented drivers and not put them down.

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by sceptic

This may sound harsh, but being a successful racing driver these days is about more than just the number of points you score or trophies you win. You need to be able to raise the money to progress to the next level. If you can't do that, then this isn't the career for you, because every year there's another group of increasingly younger, hungry, well-funded drivers, pushing you further away from a long career.

This is the crux of the matter. There are plenty of very talented drivers at race schools at most UK circuits who beat all sorts of household names in their day but lack of funding stopped their career. Bottom line is that if you can not raise enough money to pay for your racing and to live you do not have a sustainable business plan. Successful drivers are as much salesmen as drivers - look at JYS.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

This is the crux of the matter. There are plenty of very talented drivers at race schools at most UK circuits who beat all sorts of household names in their day but lack of funding stopped their career. Bottom line is that if you can not raise enough money to pay for your racing and to live you do not have a sustainable business plan. Successful drivers are as much salesmen as drivers - look at JYS.

Absolutely, the harsh reality is that unless you are seriously privately funded or happen to be picked up by a driver scheme or manufacturer it is a complete waste of your time and money.

If you can't afford it, don't do it and save yourself the heartache!

[edenrace]

Agree 100%

[ivanalesi]

It's a reality that must be changed or single-seater motorsport incl. F1 will slowly die.

[BtccLee]

I wonder if grid numbers don't improve whether Ford will cut the money and the organisers axe the series before next year instead of having the situation of Formula Renault 2.0 where it was left far too late...

[Peter Cammish]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Absolutely, the harsh reality is that unless you are seriously privately funded or happen to be picked up by a driver scheme or manufacturer it is a complete waste of your time and money.

If you can't afford it, don't do it and save yourself the heartache!

Originally Posted by simon drabble

This is the crux of the matter. There are plenty of very talented drivers at race schools at most UK circuits who beat all sorts of household names in their day but lack of funding stopped their career. Bottom line is that if you can not raise enough money to pay for your racing and to live you do not have a sustainable business plan. Successful drivers are as much salesmen as drivers - look at JYS.

Simon a cruel logic and not one supported by the MSA. Attend a kart meeting at PFI you will see cadet Karters ensconced in motor homes eating energy food and being debreifed by driver coaches, mind management guru's and personal trainers , you will also see some drinking coke under barbecue awnings watching as Dad makes that key adjustment that will bring glory in the final, poles apart you think, but ask any of them what they want to be in the future and the answer will be an F1 driver. However your post has made me realise that motor sport parents really should be protected from making their own informed decisions and I am on completing this post writing to the MSA to demand that all applications for cadet licences can only be granted if submitted with a detailed and fully costed 15 year business plan to take the licence recipient up to a future Marussia F1 seat. That should do nicely so as to avoid future disappointment I urge ten tenths fans to support me in saving people like me from themselves.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Before we all get too morose about the prospects of the less wealthy I just thought I'd point out that there are plenty of things a successful driver can do other than F1.

There are also plenty of things in F1 other than driving that require or would benefit from knowledge of driving successfully.

Christian Horner's job for example?

I certainly don't subscribe to the "if you can't afford it don't even try" brigade. That's just defeatist.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Before we all get too morose about the prospects of the less wealthy I just thought I'd point out that there are plenty of things a successful driver can do other than F1.

There are also plenty of things in F1 other than driving that require or would benefit from knowledge of driving successfully.

Christian Horner's job for example?

I certainly don't subscribe to the "if you can't afford it don't even try" brigade. That's just defeatist.

To clarify my point, I am happy for everyone to have a go and there are many ways to do this, but it is only a career for very, very few. A tiny percentage of all drivers competing in anything are getting paid or driving at no cost to them.

But if you are struggling to fund one season in a junior formulae, there is no chance of progression - even if you win it!

Two wise things said to me by an old motorsport sage many years ago.

To compete in the motorsport ladder you need to be able to double your spend every year.

Only spend money you can afford to lose

[BtccLee]

Well done Dan Cammish on winning all three races and taking the all time consecutive wins record for Formula Ford...

Lets take this time now we are half way through the season to reflect on the state of the series and look ahead to the future...


Grids: They have been low so far but peaked with 13 this weekend, although that was with guest driver assistance. However, for the second half of this year they should grow...


Variety: In terms of chassis the Sinter hasn't had the pace of the Mygale all year. We should see Ray and Beta Epsilons efforts in the next half of the year and with hopefully more drivers and bigger grids...


Racing: Cammsih has dominated but in general behind the racing has been thoroughly entertaining and clean. Stand out really has been Harrison Scott who surely will be the first to top Cammish if anyone does...


The future: The news of Formula Renault 1.6 has lead some to suggest Formula Fords days are numbered. However, with how that series is being placed at the bottom of the ladder and with Formula Ford positioned at the top of national level racing I doubt the effect the new series will have on Formula Ford. We will see if drivers progress from Renault BARC and BRDC F4 and how grids grow the second half of this year and next year...

[EastonNeston]

It is unrealistic to claim that FFord is the top level of national single seater racing, both Protyre Formula Renault & BRDC F4 have large fields with more entrants and better presented teams.

FFord is in a terminal decline, and is unlikely to survive into next season.

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Well done Dan Cammish on winning all three races and taking the all time consecutive wins record for Formula Ford...

Lets take this time now we are half way through the season to reflect on the state of the series and look ahead to the future...


Grids: They have been low so far but peaked with 13 this weekend, although that was with guest driver assistance. However, for the second half of this year they should grow...


Variety: In terms of chassis the Sinter hasn't had the pace of the Mygale all year. We should see Ray and Beta Epsilons efforts in the next half of the year and with hopefully more drivers and bigger grids...


Racing: Cammsih has dominated but in general behind the racing has been thoroughly entertaining and clean. Stand out really has been Harrison Scott who surely will be the first to top Cammish if anyone does...


The future: The news of Formula Renault 1.6 has lead some to suggest Formula Fords days are numbered. However, with how that series is being placed at the bottom of the ladder and with Formula Ford positioned at the top of national level racing I doubt the effect the new series will have on Formula Ford. We will see if drivers progress from Renault BARC and BRDC F4 and how grids grow the second half of this year and next year...

Congratulations to Dan Cammish and yes he is doing a fantastic job but with the greatest respect you cannot really compare what he has just achieved and what Scott Malvern did in 2011 both in terms of quantity and quality of the opposition. Yes Harrison Scott is doing a great job for his first season and would have been interesting to see what happened if he hadn't received the drive through yesterday but Dan really is in control at the moment. Not his fault he's dominating. He can only beat who's there. As he said in his post race interview today he is hoping to use his success this year as a launch pad to move onto bigger and better things & good luck to him but as Scott Malvern found out after two consecutive National single seater titles without the funding it is very difficult and the chasm between this level and the next is still huge!

Ray will not be entering a car this season & I very much doubt that Beta Epsilon or anyone else will either and without an expeirienced driver to help develop the car Sinter will struggle as well.

If FR 1.6 does arrive next season then that will be four junior single seater series and that is too many! I am a little surpsrised that Renault are considering this while they still have a healthy BARC 2.0L championship but are probably thinking the reliable Taatus cars are getting a bit long in the tooth now though I think they are still relevant and pretty much bullet proof!

Something will suffer next year and I'm inclined to agree with Easton and fear that it will be Formula Ford!

[BtccLee]

Does anyone know what was announced about Formula Renault 1.6 today... Also is it definitely going to be on the BARC package because a lot of reports have stopped short of saying it 100% is...

[kipper]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Variety: In terms of chassis the Sinter hasn't had the pace of the Mygale all year. We should see Ray and Beta Epsilons efforts in the next half of the year

I'm not convinced. Given that to be competitive this season, one would probably need a Mygale as people have the greatest experience of this chassis (and there have been issues in getting the Sinter up to speed), I'm not sure that a hoard of eager drivers are knocking on Ray's or Beta Epsilon's doors. As such, I'd be surprised if either manufacturer is committed to a sizeable production run at the moment.

Originally Posted by BtccLee

The future: The news of Formula Renault 1.6 has lead some to suggest Formula Fords days are numbered. However, with how that series is being placed at the bottom of the ladder and with Formula Ford positioned at the top of national level racing I doubt the effect the new series will have on Formula Ford. We will see if drivers progress from Renault BARC and BRDC F4 and how grids grow the second half of this year and next year...

I have my doubts that the ladder is correct and I'm sure that some drivers will see F4, FR 1.6 and FFord as interchangeable steps on the career ladder.

I also doubt that there are enough drivers to support all championships. To illustrate this matter 53 drivers took part in the latest rounds of the F4, FR BARC and FFord rounds. By way of comparison 51 drivers took part in the closing rounds of the equivalent championships last year (FR BARC, FFord and Intersteps); 61 in the last rounds of 2011 (which included FR UK); and 70 drivers in the last rounds of 2010 (FR BARC, FR UK, FFord, FPA and Young Guns). Whilst these figures are mere snapshots in time, it is perhaps indicative that the market is contracting.

I therefore think that FR 1.6 will be seen as a better option for drivers given that there is more overt manufacturer support and the chance to progress up the Renault ladder. I also think that drivers may also be wary of the reputation that FFord (at this level) is developing.

[Moneyseeker]

I wonder where they will find 80 drivers to fill the FF, F4, FR1.6 and BARC FR grids?

[jondownunder]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Does anyone know what was announced about Formula Renault 1.6 today... Also is it definitely going to be on the BARC package because a lot of reports have stopped short of saying it 100% is...

There's a press release at the Renault Sport site.

Although the precise details of the 2014 calendar are yet to be confirmed, it is planned for the new championship to be contested over 18 to 20 races across a maximum eight events with a race meeting format of one qualifying session and either two or three rounds, dependant on the venue.

While expected to run alongside the sister Protyre Formula Renault Championship and the Michelin Clio Cup Series for the bulk of its season, Formula Renault UK 1.6 could also run as a guest support category at some of the country’s highest profile race meetings.

Ahead of the 2014 season, organisers are putting in place plans to run an ‘Autumn Trophy’ event at Rockingham in Northamptonshire on 2nd/3rd November to enable teams and prospective drivers to gain initial experience with the car ahead of its full debut.

I don't quite understand the supposed need for this series. Didn't Young Guns/Intersteps already prove there's insufficient demand for a level between karting and F.Renault 2.0?

[EastonNeston]

Currently FFord does not have a long term future with grids of about 10 cars, the figure was boosted this week by drivers doing a one off drive to gain circuit experience before the next Protyre f Renault round.
Based on Renault's figures, the new FR1.6 series offers a cost effective package in a good safe car with races on the BARC package and, probably, 3 BTCC weekends, with a calender arranged to fit in with the academic year.
In many ways it is taking the best parts of the intersteps series, but in a modern chassis a professionally run series, so it is likely to be attractive to teams and drivers.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

I don't quite understand the supposed need for this series. Didn't Young Guns/Intersteps already prove there's insufficient demand for a level between karting and F.Renault 2.0?

I think there is a need for such a championship (which has been filled in the past by the likes of FF1600, the early days of Formula Ford Zetec and Formula Vauxhall Junior). The key debate is whether there is a need for an additional championship.

[FFmygale]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Grids: They have been low so far but peaked with 13 this weekend, although that was with guest driver assistance. However, for the second half of this year they should grow...

Variety: In terms of chassis the Sinter hasn't had the pace of the Mygale all year. We should see Ray and Beta Epsilons efforts in the next half of the year and with hopefully more drivers and bigger grids...

Can you qualify either of these comments BtccLee?

[Flavio Galtieri]

Why would any businessman build a new chassis for a failing series?

For a start nobody is going to pay very much, if anything, to drive and develop a chassis from scratch and the only drivers prepared to would probably be inexperienced and unable to do the job.

Good luck to anyone trying but let's face it, what there is of FF 200 now is a single make formula in all but name?

[EastonNeston]

I agree with Flavio, nobody would enter a new team into the championship at this stage of the season, and definitely not with a new undeveloped type of car unless they had a large budget to use an experienced driver to develop the car in an extensive & intensive test program.

FFord is a championship in terminal decline, which is very unfortunate for the young drivers and the teams involved. However a series with a core of just nine cars is not viable, either in terms of career development or spectator entertainment.

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

I agree with Flavio, nobody would enter a new team into the championship at this stage of the season, and definitely not with a new undeveloped type of car unless they had a large budget to use an experienced driver to develop the car in an extensive & intensive test program.

FFord is a championship in terminal decline, which is very unfortunate for the young drivers and the teams involved. However a series with a core of just nine cars is not viable, either in terms of career development or spectator entertainment.

Ford have got to cut the rope soon though. It would be farcical to try and maintain the series into next year if grid numbers won't grow . It will just make it harder for the teams plans, any drivers who may enter and for the TOCA package...

[FFmygale]

Originally Posted by FFmygale

Can you qualify either of these comments BtccLee?

I guess the lack of reply probably answers my question!

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by FFmygale

I guess the lack of reply probably answers my question!

Not with hard evidence no, I cannot, however with new chassis manufactures possibly entering they will need drivers. Also drivers who may not have the budget for a full season may take part in the second half of a season. It is usual in national series to see grids grow later in the season, that is what Ginetta is predicting with the Juniors this year.

IF... grids don't then Formula Ford will be pushed/killed out by Formula Renault 1.6, but this may not be a bad thing if Renault can then bring back Formula Renault 2.0 so we have a ladder formula with Formula Renault BARC as a club series and then Formula Renault 1.6, BRDC F4 and Formula Renault 2.0. Whether this will happen and also when, as Renualt 2.0 probably won't return until 2015 or later...