[BTCC] BTCC 2018 Rumours & Silly Season

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by luckn002

https://twitter.com/amdessex/status/...989997056?s=21

Should be interesting...!

TCR A3 is 5 seconds a lap slower than the BTCC S3 at Castelloli apparently!

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by RS67

It wouldn't matter if it was a bare shell supplied straight from the factory or a 2nd hand road car, there won't be any difference in stiffness. The shells would be identical.

I remember questioning the wisdom of Tony Gilham to use 4 year old road cars to make the original pair of VWs and was told it didn't matter because the shells are hacked up so much anyway.

As for old cars not being as stiff, the tank like Integras were built from 4 or 5 year old road cars!

[luckn002]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

TCR A3 is 5 seconds a lap slower than the BTCC S3 at Castelloli apparently!

Beat me to it! I see that as a victory!

https://twitter.com/amdessex/status/969249546193768449?s=21

And, I know, make of it what you will, but maybe worth a mention - 'liked' by Max Coates who's been heavily rumoured.....

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Sponsor announcement? The second car will have Shredded Wheat as a primary sponsor, I doubt the driver announcement will be connected with sponsor announcement.

Maybe it's the driver's personal sponsor announcement?

A replacement for Duo on the cars maybe?

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Maybe it's the driver's personal sponsor announcement?

A replacement for Duo on the cars maybe?

Maybe

[Spanner monkey]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

TCR A3 is 5 seconds a lap slower than the BTCC S3 at Castelloli apparently!

The Audi TCR is €115k from Audi. To build an NGTC car by the time you've had a shell build,Done the body work,Engine,Toca gearbox,TOCA subframes and running gear,TOCA electrinics package and whatever else then your looking at £200+K

TCR @340bhp NGTC @380bhp
Weight is similar.

Id expect the TCR Audi to be closer to the NGTC AUDI than 5 seconds.

I think Shaun need to look at the gap between the Audi and the NGTC Bmw's/Fords and Hondas as he's not racing against a TCR car 😋

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

The stiffness of a shell does go down over time, joints aren’t fully welded so you can get stress points around spot welds or bonded joins, just google E46 BMW boot floor...

I am aware of the E46 boot floors. That has nothing to do with a cars age reducing stiffness. It is a result of poor design, manufacturing and the metal being stretched too thin when the panels were manufactured.

Regardless of whether the donor is a 2nd hand car or a new shell, the strengthening process to build a race car will be identical.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Spanner monkey

Id expect the TCR Audi to be closer to the NGTC AUDI than 5 seconds.

I'd expect the same, but it is only a test day. What are they testing? Going for all-out lap times or new driver getting track time and testing setups?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by RS67

Regardless of whether the donor is a 2nd hand car or a new shell, the strengthening process to build a race car will be identical.

Has to be said that historic race and rally cars are pretty solid once the stiffening is done and the cage is in. Shell age doesn't count for all that as you say!

[porsche962fan]

does this detail really matter to talk about it so much ?

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I'd expect the same, but it is only a test day. What are they testing? Going for all-out lap times or new driver getting track time and testing setups?

Exactly! What setups were on the cars, have they turned a wheel previously, were they being shook down/ installed, who was driving, had they experience previously, what rubber was on... lots of questions, and as we're unlikely to ever find out I would'nt read much into it. Add the cold as a factor too...

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Exactly! What setups were on the cars, have they turned a wheel previously, were they being shook down/ installed, who was driving, had they experience previously, what rubber was on... lots of questions, and as we're unlikely to ever find out I would'nt read much into it. Add the cold as a factor too...

you are right except for one thing. the cold is the same factor for both cars

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

you are right except for one thing. the cold is the same factor for both cars

Air temperature could potentially have resulted in the TCR cars engine not running at optimal temperature, or it's tyres may have struggled for grip more. Not saying this is the case, just a thought...

Still at least they ran, unlike the small snowy hillock that is my daily driver!

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by luckn002

Beat me to it! I see that as a victory!

https://twitter.com/amdessex/status/...193768449?s=21

And, I know, make of it what you will, but maybe worth a mention - 'liked' by Max Coates who's been heavily rumoured.....

I doubt the gap is really 5 seconds.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I doubt the gap is really 5 seconds.

If the gap is genuinely 5s, then that says a lot about how well engineered a NGTC car is. The Audi could not be claimed as being in the elite performers of NGTC machinery, so if it is that much better than a TCR car, given the specs, then AmD are obviously doing a pretty good job.

Having said that, it does depend on how the two cars were being set up.

[touring fan01]

who cares how fast they are compared to each other. they don’t compete together so it’s meaningless.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

who cares how fast they are compared to each other.

AmD Essex - https://twitter.com/AmDessex/status/969249546193768449

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If the gap is genuinely 5s, then that says a lot about how well engineered a NGTC car is. The Audi could not be claimed as being in the elite performers of NGTC machinery, so if it is that much better than a TCR car, given the specs, then AmD are obviously doing a pretty good job.

Having said that, it does depend on how the two cars were being set up.

We should be able to compare them by using GT4 as a proxy. We already know that TCR is in the same ballpark as GT4, give or take a second or so at most tracks.

So for Brands Hatch GP I found that BTCC qualified at a tad over 1.30, while GT4 comes in two seconds slower at 1.32, though that time was set in free practice rather than in qualifying, as BGT's two-driver format for setting the grid really makes the qualifying times unusable for our purposes.

Now if we add another second to that gap for TCR, they should come in at around 3 seconds slower than NGTC, though it might also be as little as 1.5 if we allow for the fact that our proxy GT4 time was not set in qualifying and that TCRs have on occasion matched GT4s.

Gesendet von meinem SM-A320FL mit Tapatalk

[Sodemo]

How much is 30BHP worth? TCR has about - 350, BTCC - 380?

[Robin Marriott]

He reckons today it’s only 1 second.

[btccbloke]

Shaun is king of the twitter trolls when it comes to getting attention and reaction remember

[BLiTZ]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

who cares how fast they are compared to each other. they don’t compete together so it’s meaningless.

It's quite important for the future of the BTCC. Gow's argument against the BTCC moving to TCR regs is that they're not as fast as NGTC and it would be a step down for the BTCC.

If they prove to be quicker for a big chunk less money then BTCC teams will start to question why they're racing in the series and then the BTCC dies again like it did in 2001.

TOCA need NGTC to out perform TCR to justify it's place as Britain's premier tin top series!

[RS67]

Originally Posted by BLiTZ

It's quite important for the future of the BTCC.

If they prove to be quicker for a big chunk less money then BTCC teams will start to question why they're racing in the series and then the BTCC dies again like it did in 2001.

It isn't all a case of how fast the cats are. BTCC is very high profile with an excellent TV package. A TCR car could be 2 seconds quicker round Brands Hatch, it doesn't mean teams will do that instead if they aren't getting the tv coverage for their sponsors.

[Sodemo]

The BTCC has always wanted control over the regs it uses.

I think they are still burned by the supertouring debacle and then the spiralling costs of S2000.

As much as I disagree I think it’s a good thing for the BTCC to be separate in that sense. I think if both options were on the table TCR regs would be the obvious choice, however Gow would then lose control over the regs.

[BobJones]

Also, TCR cars are just a bit crap.

It's just that no one else came up with a better solution.