British Formula Ford 2009!!

[Andrew Kitson]

Were you FF guys on the F3/GT meeting bill at Donington in a couple of weeks?
Autosport website says that meeting is postponed until July. No MSA track licence.

[Redracer77]

Originally Posted by FFfan

Red Racer; it's amazing how when certain drivers are successful people like you naturally assume they must be cheating! It couldn't just be that they have a bit more talent than everyone else? I can tell you now where the most expenive engines are in FF1600 and the drivers that have them are so far coming nowhere!

So do you think Jamun have been cheating for the last 4 years in Duratec? They are successful because they test more than anyone else and therefore are better prepared but that's why the budget is over £120k!

If you read my post I said "joking aside" My point was that all these FF1600 drivers who did well in FF1600 doesnt mean they will do well in the British Championship. The level goes up a notch. Look at James Cole he did really well in Club FF1600 but then struggled to get a top ten in Duratec. He has worked very hard and tested well over the last year and this pre season and he rightly so is now leading the championship. Scott tested a few times in Duratec and didnt do anything to make me think he would get in the top 6 in this years championship.

[brakedisc]

"Look at James Cole he did really well in Club FF1600 but then struggled to get a top ten in Duratec. He has worked very hard and tested well over the last year and this pre season and he rightly so is now leading the championship"

Exactly what is wrong with the championship. Raw talent counts for nothing, it is all about testing, being in the right team and being able to afford time in the car. Surely it should be made cheaper by altering the regulations so that youngsters do not need to do a couple of years in the formula before they get on the top step of the podium. Carroll, Butcher etc all deserve the chance to shine. That said I doubt any pro team will support that idea although I doubt there are any who are making money from it. Reduce the costs substantially ( by regulation changes) and we might see things improve.

[Redracer77]

Originally Posted by brakedisc

"Look at James Cole he did really well in Club FF1600 but then struggled to get a top ten in Duratec. He has worked very hard and tested well over the last year and this pre season and he rightly so is now leading the championship"

Exactly what is wrong with the championship. Raw talent counts for nothing, it is all about testing, being in the right team and being able to afford time in the car. Surely it should be made cheaper by altering the regulations so that youngsters do not need to do a couple of years in the formula before they get on the top step of the podium. Carroll, Butcher etc all deserve the chance to shine. That said I doubt any pro team will support that idea although I doubt there are any who are making money from it. Reduce the costs substantially ( by regulation changes) and we might see things improve.

Why do drivers need to spend a couple of years in the Formula to get on the podium? Daniel Cammish got on the podium at Oulton Park in his first ever car race....

[FFmygale]

Originally Posted by Redracer77

Why do drivers need to spend a couple of years in the Formula to get on the podium? Daniel Cammish got on the podium at Oulton Park in his first ever car race....

They don't.

Look at the last 3 champions - all of whom won it in their first year in the series (and pretty much dominated the series) ............. and, if I recall correctly, all of whom were front runners in FF1600 or Zetec in the preceding year.

[50-SIX]

Originally Posted by FFfan

Red Racer; it's amazing how when certain drivers are successful people like you naturally assume they must be cheating! It couldn't just be that they have a bit more talent than everyone else? I can tell you now where the most expenive engines are in FF1600 and the drivers that have them are so far coming nowhere!

So do you think Jamun have been cheating for the last 4 years in Duratec? They are successful because they test more than anyone else and therefore are better prepared but that's why the budget is over £120k!

I think it is more down to the preperation than the amount of testing. Jamun just do a superb job (as do a number of other teams), simple. Boyd had done a grand old amount of half a day before he went under the lap record at Brands when he first tested for Jamun.

Like it or not though, money counts in all formula, 1600 is no different. Yes you can do it on a shoe string, run near the front and sometimes win. But you go to the year end events such as WHT, or try and win against Cliff Dempsey et al's cars, with an old, unfunded chassis/engine, no matter how hard you drive you aint gonna win. See Nathan Freke's 1600 years vs his UKFF campaign fo example.

1600 does produce some great drivers, and if you can run at the front of the top 1600 events, there is no doubt that you can mix at the front of the UKFF grid. But the fact is that you need money, and that isn't going to change. If you can't afford the £70-80k to go race in UKFF c'ship, its game over anyway. Face facts and enjoy racing what you can afford. If you keep winning, no matter what you are in, you still hacve a chance to pick up a sponsor.

With regard to Graham Carroll, didn't he do 37 races in 2008? Now, I might be wrong, but that wouldn't have come cheap so slightly puzzling why he couldn't have scraped something together for UKFF. I know you here all these figures quoted of £120k blah blah blah, but if you are quick, there are cheaper drives out there in reasonable cars.

[slevin]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Malvern was very impressive indeed in the Dempsey car

Malvern had a dispointing showing at mondello the weekend I hear. FFan you sound like your close to malvern, a family member maybe, could you shead some light on what happend

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by slevin

Malvern had a dispointing showing at mondello the weekend I hear. FFan you sound like your close to malvern, a family member maybe, could you shead some light on what happend

You'll have to ask CDR for the details but I know that he had a misfire in qualifying which caused him to stop out on the circuit before the end of the session and his engine was then down on power in the race. He also ran on very old rubber. However I wouldn't call three tenths off of the quickest lap and three seconds (My Laps) down on the winner, after 18 minutes, a disaster for someone only having their 3rd race; it was just a little dispointing after his debut performance there the previous month. I'm sure the team will sort out whatever the issues are in time for the next UK National round.

[brakedisc]

They don't.

Look at the last 3 champions - all of whom won it in their first year in the series (and pretty much dominated the series) ............. and, if I recall correctly, all of whom were front runners in FF1600 or Zetec in the preceding year.


The common denominater is?

And you, if anyone, should know what they want for a season..................

If you cannot pay you are going nowhere.

My point is that there are plenty of youngsters out there who would like a try but are out of their depth financially.

[Gaz]

How many of those recent title winners have gone onto achieve higher up the levels of motorsport though? Until leading runners from Formula Ford begin to win races higher up the ladder again the argument about just how talented these guys are will continue to rage.

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by Gaz

How many of those recent title winners have gone onto achieve higher up the levels of motorsport though? Until leading runners from Formula Ford begin to win races higher up the ladder again the argument about just how talented these guys are will continue to rage.

Fair point Gaz but what is the alternative for emerging UK talent if they want to make their mark in single seaters. Where are the Formula Renault champions from the last couple of seasons? Duncan Tappy does bits here and there but doesn't seem to be able to secure a regular drive while Adam Christodolou has had to go accross the pond to Star Mazda which I think could be a very good move.(Time will tell). What else can you do in the UK? FBMW has gone and the Euro series is ridiculously expensive; whet else FPA? Well marketed and presented but is that really taken seriously within the industry (now 12 year old cars) and does it help to teach/develop drivers? Discuss!

[Gaz]

Its an excellent point you make and it must beg an even bigger question - is Britain a place for aspiring F1 talents to begin their progression up the motor racing ladder? It seems most of the talent now comes from European based series, particularly the Formula Renault Eurocup. The argument time and time again seems to centre around the fact that racing in Europe, on GP circuits is better preparation than on the fiddly circuits of the UK.

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by Gaz

Its an excellent point you make and it must beg an even bigger question - is Britain a place for aspiring F1 talents to begin their progression up the motor racing ladder? It seems most of the talent now comes from European based series, particularly the Formula Renault Eurocup. The argument time and time again seems to centre around the fact that racing in Europe, on GP circuits is better preparation than on the fiddly circuits of the UK.

Don't disagree with you at all there Gaz but then if you are talking Europe then you come back to the same old problem; you need lots of money! Can you do any meaningful Euro single seater series for less than £250k (& the jury is still out on the new F2)? I think over the pond maybe a smart move; it's still not "cheap" but is none the less considerably cheaper than Europe and has better prize money and a clearer path to progression e.g. you win Star Mazda, you get a fully paid drive in Atlantic etc. OK it probably won't lead to F1 but F1 isn't the be all and end all and I'm sure the likes of Franchitti and Wheldon have been pretty happy with their lot.

Getting back to the original thread I still think FF in all it's guises is a good training ground and usually very entertaining. I've been involved with it/followed it in one capacity or another for more years than I care to admit to. As a fan I'm very much looking forward to the rest of this season.

[Findlay Fan]

Originally Posted by 50-SIX

I think 3 podiums in a weekend is something. Its just you seemed to have dismissed him completely before this weekend, but the fact it is he was at the sharp end all weekend. Good on him I say.

Cammish was a star, would have loved to have been there to see the old novice cross on the front row. Considering this was his first weekend car racing, not a bad show at all. Infact, it was bloody impressive. Under-hyped pre-season and showed quite a few the way.

Cole proved me wrong as well - very strong showing.

Newgarden was expected to be there and was, and will get stronger as the season goes on I should imagine.

Yes Garry has been in Formula Ford for 4 years; but this is the first year in a front running team like Fluid Motorsport Developement. Garry is still only 19 and has improved every year. Lindsay Allen could of picked several drivers but put together a package to challenge for the title. This will be the first year that Garry will have a full test programme.

2006 : Family run Van Diemen RF05 - showed promise.

2007 : Garry was let down by the dreadful Spirit WL07; he had to miss the first few rounds because the car was delivered late. Nathan Freke and Nelson Rowe tried this car; both said it was the worst car they had ever driven.

2008 : Family run Mygale SJ06 (two year old car with customer spec engine)- showed promise and often on the pace. Won 11 Scholarship rounds. Had a great race with Chrissy Palmer at Spa. Fastest lap at Donington.

Fluid have shown good faith in Findlay and we will see him win sooner rather than later.

As Fifty-Six said; I think most of us would be happy with 3 podiums, 2 fastest laps and a strong 2nd in the Championship.

[brakedisc]

Yes Garry has been in Formula Ford for 4 years; but this is the first year in a front running team like Fluid Motorsport Developement. Garry is still only 19 and has improved every year. Lindsay Allen could of picked several drivers but put together a package to challenge for the title. This will be the first year that Garry will have a full test programme.

2006 : Family run Van Diemen RF05 - showed promise.

2007 : Garry was let down by the dreadful Spirit WL07; he had to miss the first few rounds because the car was delivered late. Nathan Freke and Nelson Rowe tried this car; both said it was the worst car they had ever driven.

2008 : Family run Mygale SJ06 (two year old car with customer spec engine)- showed promise and often on the pace. Won 11 Scholarship rounds. Had a great race with Chrissy Palmer at Spa. Fastest lap at Donington.

Fluid have shown good faith in Findlay and we will see him win sooner rather than later.

As Fifty-Six said; I think most of us would be happy with 3 podiums, 2 fastest laps and a strong 2nd in the Championship.


Good informative first post, however lets hope that the 2009 entry in his CV says something better than an excuse.

I did think that he might get a couple of wins this year but the performance of a few rookies at Oulton shows that there are drivers about who will make things very difficult for him. Good luck anyway.

[Triple J Motorsport]

My understanding is there are new wet tyres this year

What was wrong with the old ones?

What is right with the slicks? Good for 7 - 8 minutes

The formula needs a new slick that is good for at least 3 heat cycles not a 1/3 of one

Or better still move to acb10s

[Deemun]

Having observed first hand developments at Oulton Park I can conclude we are probably in for one of the most fascinating seasons in recent times. Just such a shame that we are going to have to wait so long for the next rounds at Rockingham with Donington now cancelled. Largly subjective observations to date:

James Cole - benefitting from being a 2nd year driver in undoubtably the best team in the championship. If he keeps his head and doesn't buckle under the pressure then the vast experience of his team should steer him to the championship,

Garry Findlay - Fluid have a good package and Findlay with 3 seasons experience under his belt is starting to look like a contender and definately the team leader at Fluid. Should keep Cole honest.

Josef Newgarden - Has given JTR something they didn't manage to achieve in 2008 - a race win. The most natural talent in the series. If he were driving for Jamun, I've no doubt he would be champion but even as a JTR pilot he can give the establishment a good run for their money but he has lost valuable ground already.

Daniel Cammish/KMR - the revelation of 2009 so far! If they can keep this up then who knows? Definately should bag Scholarship honours.

Chris Palmer/Juno - Promising start for the strange looking Ewan Baldry designed car. Will probably suffer from lack of data but if they can maintain current performance levels then will have a respectable debut season and could turn into championship contenders in 2010

Getem/De Wit - Very respectable start. Am looking forward to the return of own make chassis.

McKenna/Hill - Jamun - Jamun seem to have all their eggs in one basket this year with Cole. Hill is most certainly on a two year programme as for McKenna fitness levels are being called into question and that pre-season injury, following his Oulton Park accident, can't be helping.

Jaffer/Raysport - To be expected I suppose. Sad to see this great Englsih marque languishing. Dare I suggest they would be better getting behind a Cliff Dempsey Racing effort given CDR's form in the (Kent) FFF & WHT?

Should be a good season?

[alias99]

It is really good to see that some of the other teams are taking the fight to Jamun. Garry and Josef seem like they will give him a run till the end, not to mention Cammish who could be int he mix for main title honours. Interesting season ahead!

Shame to see a few of the second year drivers struglling!

Jaffer / Raysport combination is doing fairly well consideringthe drivers lack of experience and lack of a team mate, (cant seem to find any past raicng history). 11th overall and 3rd in scholarship class which includes the likes of Cammish and Vernon.

I would quite like to see De Witt running closer to the front as again that would another dirver into the title mix. Id imagine they would struggle with their own chassis to begin with so im guessing they will stick with the Mygale till the end of the season.

[08u05]

If you look back at results from last year, you can see that Getem struggle at Oulton Park, then come strong afterwards. Rogier will continue to drive the 07 Mygale, the Getem chassis will only be for Jason Down, or possibly other guest drivers. The car WILL be out this year, hopefully before the DTM meeting at Brands Hatch.

The next round at Rockingham should also see the official unveiling of Getem Racings new sponsor and colourscheme.

[Triple J Motorsport]

It's a really shame Graham Carroll it's in the other Raysport car. What was his testing pace like?

Originally Posted by alias99

It is really good to see that some of the other teams are taking the fight to Jamun. Garry and Josef seem like they will give him a run till the end, not to mention Cammish who could be int he mix for main title honours. Interesting season ahead!

Shame to see a few of the second year drivers struglling!

Jaffer / Raysport combination is doing fairly well consideringthe drivers lack of experience and lack of a team mate, (cant seem to find any past raicng history). 11th overall and 3rd in scholarship class which includes the likes of Cammish and Vernon.

I would quite like to see De Witt running closer to the front as again that would another dirver into the title mix. Id imagine they would struggle with their own chassis to begin with so im guessing they will stick with the Mygale till the end of the season.

[GroupOfOne]

Something that occured to me the other day, what are Tim Blanchard and Chris Maliepaard (sp?) up to this season?

[08u05]

Both drivers are experiencing budgetary problems. Tim Blanchard is aiming to drive in a few V8 Supercar feeder series events, not sure about Maliepaard.

[GroupOfOne]

Cheers. Ah right, shame for both, but especially Blanchard. I noticed neither drivers websites appeared to mention 2009 plans when I checked the other day.

[08u05]

Funny you should mention Maliepaard, only today it has been announced he will race in the BRL Light class with Jong Talent.nl

[GroupOfOne]

I'm ashamed to say I've never even heard of the BRL Light Class until then, looks interesting though from a quick google.