Rosberg vs Hamilton

[Knowlesy]

Certainly was this weekend.

Should have been a Merc 1-2 though.

[Dutton]

I must say I want Nico to beat Lewis as much as possible, for the better he does the more bearably respectable Michael looked in the last year and half of his geriatric phase.

Mercedes better hope the extra testing "for next year" that they did will pay off, for they would've sunk like stones again at any regular circuit.

Should've been a 1-2? I beg to differ. If they hadn't screwed the pooch tactically, then they would have had their 1-2; alas, they did screw the pooch tactically - ergo, it shouldn't have been a 1-2 (so, um, it wasn't).

[Knowlesy]

It should have been but for their ineptitude is what I was more or less saying.

I was surprised how quickly the Red Bull cars caught up though all the same. Surely no matter how fast they went after the safety car released them they should never have caught the Mercedes? Did the Merc boys have to drive to a delta time?

[Dutton]

I recall at least one mention of something like "now we need to do delta -0.4", so that would suggest yes. That they were cruising for most of the time, or at least it certainly seemed that way, would also suggest that.

RBR certainly didn't seem bothered to try and push anything.

All in all I think all the leaders were just in cruise and collect mode all race with the exception of around the stops.

I must say I was expecting someone to go for the softs for the final run. If they were just going to have to cruise with the super-softs, then what harm would it have done?

Obviously it must not have been a good plan given no-one did it.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by deeks6

Lewis, Nico is faster than you ... much faster

Really? They were separated by about 2 seconds after their first stint of 30+ laps. Not "much faster" if at all. You can't even tell with these tires anyway.

[Dutton]

It would be the subtler way of telling Lewis to leave a gap and hold station, presumably.

[beau1]

Could have been a 1-2 fairly easily. Lewis messed up quite a lot by leaving a gap between him and Rosberg rather than stacking in the pits. Lewis lost about 10 seconds by trying to make space.

[ptclaus98]

I must say that I was well off the mark with Rosberg. He's a lot better than I've given him credit for.

[migliacars]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

I must say that I was well off the mark with Rosberg. He's a lot better than I've given him credit for.

Doesn't it make shumey look good now.

[Knowlesy]

You can't just revise history because Rosberg is doing well this year.

Webber must now be the greatest driver in the history of the sport ffs.

[jedrinck]

Don't forget Brundle! I must admit I don't follow the logic of the Webber remark.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by migliacars

Doesn't it make shumey look good now.

Erm, no, not really.

[migliacars]

There are a few members on this forum who will just never admit to themselves that Schumacher was and still is the or one of the best drivers. They hate the fact Lewis has been outclassed by Rosberg who was out classed by Schumacher.
I hope Nico goes on to out perform his team mate all year.

[Last2LiftOff]

Wait, what thread is this again?

That's what I thought. Sorry Miglia but you lost me.

[Mekola]

Rosberg vs Hamilton thread it is...

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by jedrinck

Don't forget Brundle! I must admit I don't follow the logic of the Webber remark.

Because Webber beat Rosberg in 2006.

Admittedly this falls flat when you remember Webber has been beaten by two teammates. I am stupid, sorry.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

You can't just revise history because Rosberg is doing well this year.

Webber must now be the greatest driver in the history of the sport ffs.

It's not revision, it's learning more information.

We don't know how cars compare to each other exactly, as different drivers drive different cars. When drivers change teams, we get a better understanding of how fast certain drivers and cars were in the past. It's tricky though, as certain drivers can adapt to certain cars/tires better than others and driver performance changes over time. The age old example is the Frentzen-Hill-Villeneuve scenario, where Hill outclassed Villeneuve, Villeneuve outclassed Frentzen and Frentzen outclassed Hill.

The Webber remark probably isn't that far off though, as Webber was as fast as or faster than all of his teammates until he was paired with Vettel. It's possible that Webber was close to the second fastest driver on the grid in his Jaguar and Williams days, but unfortunately we will never know. Age has probably slowed him some, but he can still sometimes match one of the fastest drivers on the grid in the same car. Makes you think.

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Admittedly this falls flat when you remember Webber has been beaten by two teammates. I am stupid, sorry.

On points, three: Heidfeld, Coutlhard and Vettel. Webber was clearly faster than Coulthard though, and atleast a match for Heidfeld.

[chillibowl]

its certainly another piece of the puzzle but its still a puzzle and not even a corner piece at that.

to be honest one could even make the argument that Nico is better now that Schumi is gone because schumi's presence was lowering expectations and that effected what Nico wanted or needed to get out of those three seasons as opposed to this being a vindication of MS's comeback.

dont kill me because i think Schumi is great etc etc but for the time being im more than happy to just look at what this win means for Nico in relation to his current team mate.

which i think LH deserves some credit for showing more maturity this weekend as opposed to 2007.

i dont want to look back but i really hope i wasnt one of those saying that Mclaren should have been excluded for using team orders and also glad im not saying Merc should be excluded this time around for their secret test.

odd little symmetry there for LH no? 7 years on, another Monaco, a loss to his team mate, and people are calling his team cheaters....well at least he has a dog now and i dont mean his girlfriend!

[jedrinck]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Because Webber beat Rosberg in 2006.

Admittedly this falls flat when you remember Webber has been beaten by two teammates. I am stupid, sorry.

My memory doesn't reach that far back any more since I discovered Barrettine for me. But seriously, Rosberg didn't wear a beard back then. Now he looks more manly which might make an impression on Hamilton while Webber probably thought his teammate was a girl which very likely gave him the psychological advantage. So the comparison is not fair.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I am stupid, sorry.

Don't worry, we're an inclusive family here.


I've just worked out by logical progression that the greatest motor racing driver of all time was...........







Tiff Needell

[Last2LiftOff]

Hahahaha, now we're getting somewhere.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by garcon

Don't worry, we're an inclusive family here.


I've just worked out by logical progression that the greatest motor racing driver of all time was...........







Tiff Needell

Still is, IMO.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by TF110

Really? They were separated by about 2 seconds after their first stint of 30+ laps. Not "much faster" if at all. You can't even tell with these tires anyway.

Quite. NR and LH seem to be pretty much the same speed. I was expected LH to shade it a bit over this year, but it's closer than I expected.

[garcon]

I said at season start Hamilton's first target is to match Rosberg, and as the new guy in the team he can count this season as a success if he does that.

If he matches Rosberg this season, he'll beat him next.

[beau1]

Is it at all possible that some people here are over-stating Hamilton abilities?

I remember it was said that he would easily beat Button despite Button being the reigning champion. Now he goes to Mercedes and is doing fairly well against Rosberg but only as well as Schumacher was this time last year. The strange this is that Rosberg is seen as good despite some relability issues; Schumacher had more relabilitility issues at the start of last year yet people have revised this to him being off the pace which was simply not true. Schumacher's results in the first 6 races of 2012 would have equalled Hamilton's this year if it wasn't for those relability issues.

Personally, I think the better Rosberg does then the better Schumacher looked. I don't think Nico is driving any better at this point than he was list time last year. I don't think the Mercedes is any better either. It was only in the second of half of last season that the Mercedes looked a terrible car; before then it seemed much the same as it does now on pace; a podium worthy car with tyre management issues.

Talking about the connections between old team-mates. Where does this leave Alonso? He was beaten by Hamilton in 2007; Rosberg is currently looking good against Lewis, Rosberg was beaten by Webber, Webber scored points for Minardi and Alonso didn't. Hell, Alonso was technically beaten by Tarso Marques so he must be the worst driver on the grid.