BNT NZSuperTourer 2015

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by Racetroll

Please tell me what this has to do with MSNZ?

I wasn't going to put them in the post, for fear that it would be pulled up as you have done.

But the fact is, this mess can be directly traced back to MSNZ for a number of reasons, and in my mind they are just as much to blame as the V8ST management has been over the years.

I don't really want to go down the blame path though, all I was saying in the above post is that MSNZ cares very little for the race attending fan, as has been proven time and time again, so they can share the brunt of my abuse.

[Shoreboy57]

MSNZ (or their representatives) may no longer be a promoter but ultimately they (as with any national sports organisation) have an overarching governance responsibility for the sport to be well run and growing. That covers strategy and long-term planning covering facilities, competitors, volunteers, competitions etc etc.

It is not acceptable for any NSO to sit on the sideline and watch their sport fall apart. Mind you FIA are doing a good job of that with F1, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Racetroll

I'd question if they were a Sanctioned Series at the time of this alleged incident. If they weren't and their tech rules were outside of schedule z, there is nothing a scrutineer, clerk of course or the stewards could do about it.

So you’re saying if it’s outside of schedule z, there’s absolutely nothing anyone can do to compel a competitor to obey the rules (which isn’t necessarily the same as enforcing a penalty).

[Goat Boy]

Gee, three "brand new" posters. Interesting. Which of you is Budd, which is Harris and which is Short then?

[Shoreboy57]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Gee, three "brand new" posters. Interesting. Which of you is Budd, which is Harris and which is Short then?

None of the above - just a dispirited racing fan altho' have also been a national series sponsor and naming rights car sponsor for Greg Brink back in the day of two-litre tourers. So there is a little history but a long time ago

However I'm active as an administrator in another sport, so perhaps I look at this through a different lens.

Lindsay

[raymond]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

shame really, never got to see them in the flesh, but then havn't had much time for lawnmower races for a few years.



Mark Petch, put your hand up.......... you have the floor, please explain why you created and then onsold a lemon, and up until recently , posted about how to fix the problems in top level NZ motorsport that you helped to create.

all ears, cobber.

Hi all;

I'm not sure that slagging anyone is productive at all. V8ST was/is a commercial model that 23? very interested, intelligent and motorsport savy parties bought into.

Pointing fingers at individuals for the last 2 years hasn't worked, so maybe we should move on?

One thing for sure is that the continual negativity will stop people investing in the "top level" of circuit racing, and if we are going to have a viable V8 (or any saloon)Championship, then we all have to get over the hurdle.

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Shoreboy57

MSNZ (or their representatives) may no longer be a promoter but ultimately they (as with any national sports organisation) have an overarching governance responsibility for the sport to be well run and growing. That covers strategy and long-term planning covering facilities, competitors, volunteers, competitions etc etc.

It is not acceptable for any NSO to sit on the sideline and watch their sport fall apart. .

AGREE

[Racetroll]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Gee, three "brand new" posters. Interesting. Which of you is Budd, which is Harris and which is Short then?

If you're pointing at me GB, I 'outed' myself on here a long time ago.

Deb, from the Motorsport Club (volunteers at Hampton and Pukekohe mostly)

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by raymond

Hi all;

I'm not sure that slagging anyone is productive at all. V8ST was/is a commercial model that 23? very interested, intelligent and motorsport savy parties bought into.

Pointing fingers at individuals for the last 2 years hasn't worked, so maybe we should move on?

One thing for sure is that the continual negativity will stop people investing in the "top level" of circuit racing, and if we are going to have a viable V8 (or any saloon)Championship, then we all have to get over the hurdle.

Agreed.

To Quote Dave Johnson, Speedcafe.

"Unfortunately, the internet has given every troll an outlet they can hide behind with anonymity. Hence why there is SO MUCH negativity on it. Seems it's far easier for people to spit out negatives than praise the positives!"

[Racetroll]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

So you’re saying if it’s outside of schedule z, there’s absolutely nothing anyone can do to compel a competitor to obey the rules (which isn’t necessarily the same as enforcing a penalty).

I'm saying, if a class has it's own rules outside of the MSNZ manual, and it's not a sanctioned series, the clerk of the course is unable to apply those rules.

Do you really think wagging your finger and saying "Now play fair" is going to work when the team knows full well you can't do anything?

[Ugy]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Buggar!!
Thank you for the info tho....lets hope next season goes well.

Stu please tell me you are joking.

[NZSTfan]

Yes I agree with Raymond. Whats happened has happened, so its time to now re-group, merge (if need be; lets face it NZV8TC is also a shambles), join together as one and move forward. Slagging each other off wont get us anywhere, even though I do have issues with the lack of governance from MSNZ, but maybe that is a moot point.

Anyway, just got this email from ST:

The BNT NZ SuperTourers regrettably advises that the South Island rounds of the championship will not be going ahead.

A declining grid size has rendered it unfeasible to run the category at the planned events on March 7/8 at Timaru and Ruapuna on March 21/22.

NZ SuperTourers CEO Ray Noonan says viability for stakeholders in the series was one of the key factors in making the decision.

“It is certainly not the desired outcome for any involved in the category but all efforts to grow the grid for these rounds has failed and it is simply not viable for any of our stakeholders, including teams and sponsors, to travel South with just five confirmed entries. We were hopeful several others would be at these rounds but this is now highly unlikely hence the decision to cancel,” says Noonan.

Noonan says the series is committed to working with the series teams on the future of the category, with the goal of growing the grid size for the 2015/2016 season.

“We are confident that we have a pipeline of team owners and drivers that will ensure credible grids for the future.”

“Over the coming months we will work with all parties to develop the best platform that will ensure its ongoing long term sustainability.”

“We are convinced there is a future for the category but we cannot continue to run it in its current state given the obligations we all have to sponsors & fans and the large cost involved for all parties.”

Some of you will also have the same email as its just the bulk one they send out all the time.

But, being the overly positive chap that I am, as mentioned before I always thought the sprints would be a dead-duck; which has proven to be the case. But I also stated (and still believe) that the 15/16 season should come right. What that will look like I don't know. Will we see TLX's and ST's on the same grid with either a 'class within a class' type thing, or some sort of parity in place??

Who knows.

But either way there are some 20 ST's, 6 or so TLX's and the whole lot of them want to race at decent events with decent crowds and support classes.

Why is it that Australia, a mere 3 hour flight from NZ seems to have motorsport down-packed? they have excellent national series and a clear pathway from Karts to V8SC. Why can't we do that?

On a side note, I have moved some of my sponsorship $$ to an Aussie series, because at least they can put on a decent show. I don't think I am or will be the first to do this.

Stu

[Ugy]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

shame really, never got to see them in the flesh, but then havn't had much time for lawnmower races for a few years.



Mark Petch, put your hand up.......... you have the floor, please explain why you created and then onsold a lemon, and up until recently , posted about how to fix the problems in top level NZ motorsport that you helped to create.

all ears, cobber.

Steady Joe you could end up in court.

[Shoreboy57]

Originally Posted by raymond

Hi all;

I'm not sure that slagging anyone is productive at all. V8ST was/is a commercial model that 23? very interested, intelligent and motorsport savy parties bought into.

Pointing fingers at individuals for the last 2 years hasn't worked, so maybe we should move on?

One thing for sure is that the continual negativity will stop people investing in the "top level" of circuit racing, and if we are going to have a viable V8 (or any saloon)Championship, then we all have to get over the hurdle.

Well said. History is what it is (useful to learn from but little more).
IMHO this kind of problem requires vision, leadership, pragmatism and an ability to bang heads for the common good. Someone step forward please.

[Tom bear]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Yeah, that was a bit of a dumb move.

That said, he also managed to get a staggering number of people to invest in the sport and went along way to make the sport a decent entertainment proposition.


Seems to be a common theme across multiple classes that cheating is okay as long as it's a mate doing it or you've get a tall tale to tell at the end of it....Did the Tech Steward do anything about it?

He was furious..told other competitors but same old story. The series has no one at the top to make tough decisions to Dq the car. The irony is this series was scarred to upset team owners so they didn't enforce the rules properly..by doing this it became a joke championship. Drivers / team owners / tech guys laughing about how certain cars are blatantly cheating.

[NZSTfan]

Anyone heard that the TL crowd have had enough of playing grid filler to the TLX's, and made this quite clear at Manfield?

My sources tell me that the TL guys want to race on a separate grid with the ST's when all is sorted.

If true, then this would mean that the TLX cars would have to join onto the back of the ST grid. Which some would prefer anyway.

I wish I had a crystal ball, but I do know that things could get interesting from here on. I think some sort of merge is on the cards, and that ST will have up to 15 cars for the 15/16 season (write off the rest of the sprints methinks), and the TLX gang will be offered to join. Their call either way. The TL's should end up running as a feeder class to the ST's (bit like Challenge Cup really) and we may, just may, be starting to resurrect a decent V8 racing series in this country. But that wont happen until after the winter break, which can't come soon enough as far as I am concerned.

Hmmmmm

[Tom bear]

Originally Posted by raymond

Hi all;

I'm not sure that slagging anyone is productive at all. V8ST was/is a commercial model that 23? very interested, intelligent and motorsport savy parties bought into.

Pointing fingers at individuals for the last 2 years hasn't worked, so maybe we should move on?

One thing for sure is that the continual negativity will stop people investing in the "top level" of circuit racing, and if we are going to have a viable V8 (or any saloon)Championship, then we all have to get over the hurdle.

I'm not sure where your getting your information but this series was never commercially viable. Buying a car at 300k..spending 60k a round to run last for zero prize money with no legitimate sponsors isn't viable.

Aside from the very wealthy everyone who bought a car will be regretting it as they are worth nothing. In fact they are a liability..so I wouldn't call them savvy buyers. Some who got sold the dream drive the car once then parked it in a garage.

I actually think the blatant lies, cheating and corruption in this series should be exposed rather than swept under the rug. There is no future in v8 racing anyway so rip in I reckon.. No need for cliche comments about not blaming people..the series is in liquidation....who's to blame for this balls up

[tailgater]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Yeah, that was a bit of a dumb move.

That said, he also managed to get a staggering number of people to invest in the sport and went along way to make the sport a decent entertainment proposition.


Seems to be a common theme across multiple classes that cheating is okay as long as it's a mate doing it or you've get a tall tale to tell at the end of it....Did the Tech Steward do anything about it?

Mate without sounding facetious people that get 'staggering numbers of people to invest in something that doesn't deliver as promised are commonly referred to as 'con men' some notable examples are - Eric Watson, Rod Petricevic and the good chaps from south canterbury finance.

[Tom bear]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Agreed.

To Quote Dave Johnson, Speedcafe.

"Unfortunately, the internet has given every troll an outlet they can hide behind with anonymity. Hence why there is SO MUCH negativity on it. Seems it's far easier for people to spit out negatives than praise the positives!"

It's forum..sort of the way it works on a forum

But since you are all for face to face stuff why don't you meet with the people who you lied and took money off when starting this series..maybe buy the cars back at 300k?

When a so called premier series is broke, full of cheating and can only feild 5 cars..people arnt going to be positive?

[tailgater]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Anyone heard that the TL crowd have had enough of playing grid filler to the TLX's, and made this quite clear at Manfield?

My sources tell me that the TL guys want to race on a separate grid with the ST's when all is sorted.

If true, then this would mean that the TLX cars would have to join onto the back of the ST grid. Which some would prefer anyway.

I wish I had a crystal ball, but I do know that things could get interesting from here on. I think some sort of merge is on the cards, and that ST will have up to 15 cars for the 15/16 season (write off the rest of the sprints methinks), and the TLX gang will be offered to join. Their call either way. The TL's should end up running as a feeder class to the ST's (bit like Challenge Cup really) and we may, just may, be starting to resurrect a decent V8 racing series in this country. But that wont happen until after the winter break, which can't come soon enough as far as I am concerned.

Hmmmmm

I suppose you are off to ride your unicorn as well?

[JamesK]

Originally Posted by Tom bear

....the series is in liquidation....

Originally Posted by Tom bear

When a so called premier series is broke, ....

I see no mention or evidence of the series being in financial difficulties.
Why do you think the series is broke ?

[Tom bear]

Originally Posted by JamesK

I see no mention or evidence of the series being in financial difficulties.
Why do you think the series is broke ?

Are you being serious? The owners admit it loses 200k a round and they are pumping money into it..

The South Island rounds were cancelled because it's not financially viable (nice sounding words to say they can't afford it)

People can't sell cars for even 80k..in other words there is no demand for the product..people don't want to race them..

They get no crowds..and it's general knowledge they are in debt with certain race tracks..

[promax]

Originally Posted by tailgater

I suppose you are off to ride your unicorn as well?

probably lol how many years did he rubbish the TLX?

funny.. it was only a couple of weeks ago.. people associated with ST teams publicly accused the TLX of being a moving chicane. the TLX was not fit to race with ST. yet now the TLX and TL are seen as the saviour of the ST class? just let the ST class die a natural death. it might be the best thing that has happened in the sport for a number of years.

[Chappelli]

=Tom bear;3506446]He was furious..told other competitors but same old story. The series has no one at the top to make tough decisions to Dq the car. The irony is this series was scarred to upset team owners so they didn't enforce the rules properly..by doing this it became a joke championship. Drivers / team owners / tech guys laughing about how certain cars are blatantly cheating.[/QUOTE]

Interesting..... As they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant. What strikes me as odd is that for all the allegations, there’s very very rarely specifics given. No doubt you (and plenty of others) know who and what the steward saw?

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by tailgater

Mate without sounding facetious people that get 'staggering numbers of people to invest in something that doesn't deliver as promised are commonly referred to as 'con men' some notable examples are - Eric Watson, Rod Petricevic and the good chaps from south canterbury finance.

Ouch.

I won’t comment on what you appear to be insinuating, simply because from my vantage point I’ve not seen anything that raises any flags.... Perhaps you could share some detail of “what was promised”?