Holden drivers to swap seats

[HDTVKSS]

IF its all up to number crunching, then why do we keep getting told by FPR that Lowndes has switched to Seton's setup in order to get some pace and handling out of the car?

Surley if Lowndes was the better devel and set up guru then this situation would be reversed?

[eduardo1]

Perhaps.

Or maybe, as often happens when a team's cars are struggling and off the pace and really doesn't have a clue about how to fix it - they go in two separate directions set-up wise to see which way works.

When they find a way that works, or at least improves the car, then they'll apply that to the 'other' car.

And perhaps the Prodrive engineers haven't got the handle on V8s as well as the ex-HRT/HMS staff in PWR that have been running very successful V8 Holdens for many years.

There is a science to this method of set-up, and the engineers need to know how to apply the numbers they see to real-world items like suspension, roll-centres etc etc. And these cars are very unique in the way they are setup. You don't learn that in five minutes.

And a few of them are ex-Seton engineers, not exactly the picks of the litter.

[Onlooker]

Originally posted by eduardo1
Are you guys serious?

Lowndes is one of the best development drivers going around.

They set up by number crunching. They take in masses of data and use that to set the car up. Brighty tells them whether it feels good or bad, if it's understeering or oversteering and the stopwatch tells them if it's fast. There team engineer doesn't even watch him on the track when testing, he stays in the garage and watches the computer.

And it works.

Have you ever noticed how the drivers that are beating the opposition are not only "great development drivers" but also driving for the teams that are able to develop the car for the driver.
Lownes drove for one year as a test driver and the team came out and flogged everyone for all bar one of the next 5-6 years,hence it must have been "his" development that made the difference. Problem is he has been developing a Falcon now for 4 years and forget the team change etc, he should have a bank of data in his head and been able to instantly advise FPR on the direction the car needed to go from his experience in 00(even though he was unable to capture the development gains he did in 6-10 test days with HRT,I wonder if he was assisted in anyway by the engineer that was there at the time and now holds down a very senior place at Ferrari assisting MS????? .)
Ambrose was able to drag the Pirtek car kicking and screaming from the doldrums that Baird had experienced in the car in 2 test days and a few prctice sessions at theAGP so he is a real development guru.
Skaife completely forgot what a great car felt at Gibbo's but has now been able to lend his development skills at HRT
Anyone who's backside slipps into the 2nd GRM car instantly forgets how to set up a car , ala Cam McConville and Bargs,but suprisingly both have done well in other cars.

Set up development is the domain of engineers not drivers, well more to the point the younger new drivers. What an engineer needs from a driver is one that can do consistant laps and give honest feed back to check aginst the data. He then has the base to work on and can provide the car, now the 2nd and most important part for the driver comes into play and that is to take this set up to the limit without bouncng the car off walls,cars and sand traps, a problem facing Dumbrells engineer.

[pete55]

In 2005 it looks like Bright at PWR, Murphy at K-Mart (Kelly) and Tander to another 'new' Holden team.

[bright50]

It's going to be real funny looking back at this topic come March next year!!! It's even funnier watching people speculate in this forum when you know exactly what is going on......

[Onlooker]

And so frustrating knowing excatly what is going on but unable to point out others errors. Bit like all those that predicted very acuratly that Lownes would team up with 00 and that they would switch to Ford from Holden.

[champcarman]

I think the performances at HRT since the departure of Bright have shown who did the car development at HRT.

[lowndes6]

Ok i can tell you that two of these rumors are 100% correct as i got told today. I cant say what 2 until its officially announced and I would like to keep my job All I know is it will be a great 2005 V8 series.

2 Of these are true

Tander ---> Kmart Racing
Murphy ---> PWR
Bright ---> New Holden team based in Melbourne

[pete55]

For two of those to be correct somebody is not telling the truth. Murphy has apparently stated on RPM that he has a K-Mart contract for next year. If that is the case i can't see how any of those assumptions are correct.

[lowndes6]

Contracts = Nothing ask any sports star or coach

[stmorri]

bright50 knows the answers and more......come on Lucas when are you going to tell them?

[Archer]

Heres what I think and why.

Murphy to stay at Kmart with Rick, because I have heard he is happy with the current contractual proceedings.

Tander to go to PWR with Repco $$ to make a Weel/Tander PWR Chandlers Repco team.

Bright to go to a new Holden team based in Melbourne. Hard to speculate more on this one due to the lack of details, but you would have to think it would have something to do with Walkinshaw (HSV) and Crennen. As for a L1 and a team mate, Tander is leaving behind the obvious choices.

[tiko]

Some parts are correct Archer, whilst Murphy has admitted they havent had the pace this season he hasn't been telling everybody hes looking for other drives etc.
Tander on the other hand clearly is leaving GRM as he said so on C10 news last night and I would think he would stay in the RED corner as most have speculated.
One thing though I am a little unsure on is as to why Bright may be leaving PWR. I dont see why hed want to, unless money is talking somewhere else. You see hes had one of if not the fastest Holdens this year and he and Ambrose are the only drivers to win two rounds.

Definately food for thought.

[Archer]

You hit the nail on the head when you started talking about where the money is going.

[Timu]

http://www.hsv.com.au/hsv_racing/

Heres some weight towards HSVs feeling of a six car empire.

If Garth is leaving GRM I hope he can fit in to another red team. Wouldn't be alot of decent seats, but I know he and Rick Kelly get on with each other really well...

[GTRMagic]

Depending on the reliability of the source, the 7th and 8th piece of the HMS jigsaw puzzle may just entice a driver with his purported Repco millions to join a hitherto unsponsored NSW based campaign.....

.... presuming someone hasnt already bought/leased the franchise slot Or perhaps a 1 car team is on the go

[GTRMagic]

Whispers from Winton suggest that the Repco millions may not be the only dollars missing from one particular team in 2005.

It seems that there has been a significant downsizing of support from a previous naming rights sponsor, and while the team is still in negotiations with the sponsor, it seems the oil company is headed for other pastures next year.....

Meantime, the other major sponsor in the same operation is said to be looking at taking a sabbatical from the sport as well... closely linked in motorsport in overseas markets with the oil company above, the lack of performance, and the diminution of the signage size on the cars sees alternatives being sought.

Lets not be surprised then if the triumverate of sponsors end up wherever Mr Tander hangs his crash hat next season....

What that means for the other team is unclear... presumably the insurance sponsorship from the Monaro program can be significantly upweighted (even if it is an HMS sponsor and not strictly speaking a GRM one) to recover the lost dollars....

I can feel a garage sale coming on...

[Sol]

The relationship between Garry Rogers and Valvoline has always been close. It started with the amount of oil his dealership uses. Oil companies are always willing to support reciprocal business relationships with large customers.

Rogers then became responsible somehow for divvying up Valvoline's motorsport sponsorship dollars each year. Always seemed strange to outsiders.

If long serving Valvoline Australia MD Michael Porter has retired or moved on, then a change to this relationship may well be possible.

Garry Rogers though would never have trouble securing some form of oil company support though, its just the size that may change.

[GTRMagic]

Perhaps, but with the risk of having all 3 sponsors of the team looking elsewhere in 2005, there has to be something fundamentally awry somewhere.

[Sol]

I think GRM have been left behind in terms of infrastructure and the size of their organisation in the last few years. They don't seem to have improved as other teams have.

Until about 18 months ago GRM were preparing 2 V8s, a ute and building Monaros out of a very small workshop.

I wonder what the financial situation of the team is? Do some teams make more profit than others? I don't know about GRM, but it makes you wonder. Does large profits lead to poor performance in subsequent years? There are some teams where this inference could be drawn.

[GTRMagic]

I dont know how you can make money out of a merchandise range when all the cars you run have had the same livery for 10 years.....

[mayhem]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
Perhaps, but with the risk of having all 3 sponsors of the team looking elsewhere in 2005, there has to be something fundamentally awry somewhere.

Wonder whether today helped?

[GTRMagic]

Not sure, but the part I found odd was Mr Rogers running in the GRM showcar in China wearing a non descript Holden red racing suit, and not a GRM version with all the sponsors attached... even his had wasnt a Repco/Valvoline/Cummins version.....

Velly stwange....

[mayhem]

I've noticed similar actions from a few different teams/drivers lately....

[eduardo1]

No idea about sponsorships, although it would take a seismic shift in attitude at HQ for Rogers to lose the Valvoline/Cummins money.

But after Winton - Bright is on the move - the reason being he will have an ownership stake in this new team. I have a fair idea who his 'partner' will be, but not sure.

Tander to Kmart, Murphy to PWR.