Lapped cars in second safety car period

[BeeJ]

As a marshal I prefer the cars to be bunched together whilst dealing with an incident. As said before in the thread having to keep stopping sorting out the incident whilst another car comes around at slow speed, clean up a bit more then stop again is not the best way of sorting things out.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by BeeJ

As a marshal I prefer the cars to be bunched together whilst dealing with an incident. As said before in the thread having to keep stopping sorting out the incident whilst another car comes around at slow speed, clean up a bit more then stop again is not the best way of sorting things out.

I agree and always thought that was the idea and desired result of deploying a safety car.....but, to be fair I wouldn't want Charlie Whiting's job -even for what he's probably paid! .

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I don't remember there being many pile-ups on the restart before the 'lapped cars overtaking' rule was introduced. I'm just not sure that this is the best way to deal with the problem, if indeed there really is a problem.

I'm not saying there were. Only that restarting on colder tires isn't really different to letting a car unlap itself - only more dangerous because the cars are actually racing. If there weren't many incidents during restarts, I don't see why the current procedure would be dangerous.

[Ralf's Girl]

I just think it's strange, coupled with the 'no pitting under the safety car' rule - I don't recall there ever being any major problems with cars pitting as soon as the safety car came out either. But then that's the FIA for you...why leave the rules as they are when you can mess with them and confuse everybody?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I don't recall there ever being any major problems with cars pitting as soon as the safety car came out either.

Looking back to Alonso's accident in Brazil I think that it is certainly necessary to slow the cars to a safe speed regardless of where they are in relation to an accident.

[Ralf's Girl]

Yes, they need to be slowed down for obvious reasons, but did they ever zoom round at racing speed (under, one would assume, waved yellow flags) to get to the pitlane? Because the rule about no pitting under the safety car seems to assume that that's what would happen, but I didn't think it had ever really been an issue.

Anyway, that's not actually what this thread is about. I just think the rules on what you can and can't do while the safety car is out are pretty inconsistent - but like I said, that's the FIA.

[sizzle]

Run the lapped cars thru the pits so they emerge at the back of the queue. Credit them a lap if you want to, or, leave them the lap down because they don't deserve to get it back for free

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by bludvl_x19

If they went to a 'C60', the cars would be limited to 100km/h, at which point
I believe that the tyres would cool down, and the cars would start to overheat.

Well, in that case the teams should find a solution. In 2006 and 2007 teams seemed to have no problem with overheating engines and cold tyres despite having their drivers waiting at the end of the pit lane for Q3.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Run the lapped cars thru the pits so they emerge at the back of the queue. Credit them a lap if you want to, or, leave them the lap down because they don't deserve to get it back for free

Definitely the best idea I have heard for getting the lapped cars out of the way. Have them peel off an hold at the end of pitlane until the last lead lap car has cleared pit out, then they can blend in with any cars laps down on the track. Should be done on last lap before SC comes in.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Run the lapped cars thru the pits so they emerge at the back of the queue. Credit them a lap if you want to, or, leave them the lap down because they don't deserve to get it back for free

Am i being thick here, but if you make the lapped cars go through the pitlane to allow the lead laps past (on the track), wouldn't that then put the lapped cars 2 laps down?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Am i being thick here, but if you make the lapped cars go through the pitlane to allow the lead laps past (on the track), wouldn't that then put the lapped cars 2 laps down?

What I think is intended is to get all the cars in the correct running order behind the SC.

Bring all lapped cars into the pits, then once the leaders go through, release them onto the back of the procession in order.

That way, all cars would be in order, no cars would need to chase the back of the pack, and on the restart all cars would be fighting for position, 100% committed, with no need for blue flags.

It all sounds too perfect so we know it won't happen.

[Dead-Eye]

How long would they have to wait in the pits? Can't be too long because it would cause overheating/tire temp problems.

[Bleu]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

Yes, they need to be slowed down for obvious reasons, but did they ever zoom round at racing speed (under, one would assume, waved yellow flags) to get to the pitlane? Because the rule about no pitting under the safety car seems to assume that that's what would happen, but I didn't think it had ever really been an issue.

Michael Schumacher had fastest laps of those which included pit stops during 2004 US and 2005 Canadian Grand Prix's, which were set while the SC was deployed. In first, it was Ralf's crash on oval and in second, Button's crash into wall of champions.

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I don't like the 'lapped cars may now overtake' rule simply because it's inconsistent - you can't pit under the safety car because they don't want drivers passing accident scenes at racing speed to dive into the pits, but you can bomb round the track after passing the safety car to join up to the back of the pack? The logic of that must have passed me by.

Of course, though, it was really done as a way to squish the field up as much as possible, both in terms of time and on-track action, in the interests of "the show".

I remain to be convinced it was in anyway "safety" related.

[Ralf's Girl]

Well, yes, as far as I can tell what they actually want to do is get the backmarkers out of the way to allow the leaders to race each other - the obvious flaw in that plan being that the leaders will very rarely try to pass each other immediately after a safety car when their brakes/tyres aren't at optimum temperature. I can't recall anybody overtaking as soon as the safety car has gone in the pits in any recent races.

[Bleu]

Melbourne 2006 was the race which probably caused the rule change regarding lapped cars. One of the Midland drivers (don't remember whether it was Albers or Monteiro) was clearly sleeping and Alonso got about 3-second-gap over 2nd place driver. As you can't pass before the finish line, rest of the drivers were behind that Midland until the finish line.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Am i being thick here, but if you make the lapped cars go through the pitlane to allow the lead laps past (on the track), wouldn't that then put the lapped cars 2 laps down?

No, they are already behind the leader or they wouldn't be a lapped car would they. All it means is they remain a lap down instead of getting their lap back.

Where it may be unfair is it doesn't allow what may have been a scrap between a couple of backmarkers for position to continue if the safety car came out when one had been lapped and not the other. That would be a case for the crediting of a lap even though they didn't repass the leader.

[BootsOntheSide]

Maybe the current use of blue flags needs to be looked at as well. Overtaking backmarkers is a skill in itself, and the top drivers probably have it too easy with drivers getting out of their way. I'd rather see blue flags used more sparingly - perhaps just to alert backmarkers of the position of a leader, rather than forcing them to move over.

[Rick]

at the time I was wondering if they were trying to time it so Kova could belt around on a quick lap and heat up his tyres, just in time for the restart with those ahead struggling on cold tyres.

Didn't happen but.

[Bleu]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Maybe the current use of blue flags needs to be looked at as well. Overtaking backmarkers is a skill in itself, and the top drivers probably have it too easy with drivers getting out of their way. I'd rather see blue flags used more sparingly - perhaps just to alert backmarkers of the position of a leader, rather than forcing them to move over.

That's what I think too. But worse thing here is that if for example Hamilton (or any top driver) suffers puncture on the first lap, and then pits for new one. While he returns to track he comes just ahead of race leaders. Not only Hamilton needs to let leaders by, but basically he needs to let everyone to overtake, even cars like Red Bull and Renault which are surely slower than McLaren. Kovalainen mentioned that last year when he suffered that kind of situation in Interlagos.

[Dutton]

Well, he would likely be traveling faster than the likes of a Red Bull, so that would not come into play. In terms of the other "top guys", provided the driver in question is not holding up the the other "top guys" then the blues are not waved.

At least, this is how it has seemed to work in the past.

However, I do think F1 should get in-line with most other motorsport where the blues are a warning system rather than a strictly mandated order.