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6 Sep 2001, 02:44 (Ref:142226)
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#26 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,491
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I remember clearly just after the race that Rubens had to move over for MSch, I posted, tongue in cheek, that he should just keep his mouth shut, ask Ferrari for a hefty salary rise, and accept his position as No 2 at Ferrari, and cry all hte way to the bank. Good grief, that's what happend the week after. I couldn't believe it. Some guys drive for money, others race for glory, and I think Rubens went from one to the other overnight - from when he was at the after race press conference to when he spoke to John Toad the next morning.
 I suppose he could stick around at Ferrari and see whether he could pick up a few crumbs. However, once the flames of passion left him, it is helluva difficult to re-ignite it again, especially for one who speaks Portuguese and has that temperament.
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6 Sep 2001, 02:46 (Ref:142227)
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#27 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 247
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its really amazing how you guys somehow end up blaming Schumacher for his teammate not doing well.Its just that Rubens isnt as good a driver as Schumacher..which BTW dosent mean he dosent deserve to be in F1.I rate schumacher with senna and prost and though i didnt see a lot of prost, i saw a lot of senna and i think MS is as good as him.
As for his teammates not liking him liz, you always will not like a guy who makes you look like a fool because he is able to do much more with the same resources that you have.If rubens were to read the 'he dosent deserver to be in f1' posts on this forum, he would surely hate schumacher, though by no fault of schumacher himself. laxman |
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6 Sep 2001, 05:16 (Ref:142259)
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#28 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 11,402
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Mr Laxman...I could not have said it better myself. I get a little tired of Schumacher this and Schumacher that...Ruben's is hired to drive the living daylights out of that car of his, he is not at Ferrari to ***** and moan..Why some of the members continue to lay blame at Schumachers door because Ruben's is just not as fast as Schumacher..How many times does Michael need to win a pole position and then the race for you guys to get the point...You can call the whole show fixed and maybe it is, I realy don't know,but Schumacher is flying right now, could it be that BMW engine in his Ferrari..
Last edited by JeremySmith; 6 Sep 2001 at 05:17. |
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6 Sep 2001, 05:51 (Ref:142269)
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#29 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,491
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Quote:
I think you are missing the point just a little here. I don't think that anyone here has laid blame on MSch, in fact we are focussing on Rubens here. Rubens did believe that he could be faster than MSch at the beginning of the year, and for awhile, he was almost as fast. In fact, he was even fster in one race, much faster, but was ordered to slow down and let MSch pass him, several times, till he finally relented after the last corner and did as he was told. From that moment on, he never got the fire back in his belly, and seems to be a beat man. No!! Rubens now realises he is NOT hired to drive the living daylights out of his car - it has been made abundantly clear that he is hired to support MSch. Today, I believe he has lost that edge, and I will bet anything that he will not be able to out qualify MSch again this year, and never be in a position to beat MSch. He has been humiliated, and he is just collecting his pay cheque. I have seen people at work do just that when their initiative has been slammed, and I suppose you can draw some parallel with Rubens at his job. |
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6 Sep 2001, 06:09 (Ref:142278)
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#30 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 11,402
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I see your point Bouncey you explain it very well..Has Ruben's really been told by Ferrari to just play a support role to Schumacher? I don't see the point really what are the powers that be at Ferrari going to do if Ruben's just goes out there and blows his team mate away ..I know I am sounding a bit naive..I did not agree with them telling Ruben's to let Michael pass, complete bull..So Michael comes in second and wins the WDC anyway, I just watch F1 it does not mean I understand the game..LOL
Regards...Jeremy |
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6 Sep 2001, 06:34 (Ref:142283)
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#31 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,491
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Yeah!! It is really sad, because MSch won the championship, to all intents and purposes, at least three races ago. There was absolutely no need for John Toad to ask Rubens to let MSch pass in that race, but I suppose, hindsight is something few of us are gifted with, like me
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6 Sep 2001, 06:43 (Ref:142287)
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#32 | |||||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,643
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VB, I agree, and, disagree.
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Has he lost heart? Yes. Is he disolusioned? Yes. We all would be if we thought we were the best driver in the world and every fortnight some guy pounded you into the ground by showing you your not. As for Austria, he got confirmation that the team do'nt think he's the best either. Who would'nt be upset? |
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6 Sep 2001, 07:14 (Ref:142301)
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#33 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 479
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How can Rubens lack the motivation or the fighting spirit to win just because of the odd occasion he might have to give position away. If anything he would try harder to get closer to Schumi.
If Ruben's could ever outrace Michael in a fair fight and then be told to move over, then all Ferrari fans would be outraged and all support would be with Rubens. But guess what....It will never happen! If ever there was an occasion for Rubens to perform well, it was Spa, knowing the team was all behind him. Of course with that came the added 'pressure' that Michael (and other great drivers who are expected to perform well every time) has had on him since he started...but Rubens just wasn't up to it. |
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6 Sep 2001, 09:56 (Ref:142347)
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#34 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 247
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I think rubens gave his best shot but couldnt match Schumacher.He should move back to jordan or swap places with alonso
laxman |
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6 Sep 2001, 11:08 (Ref:142381)
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#35 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,294
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I don't understand the constant slagging RB. Considering he's third in the points and usually brings the car home to finish on the rostrum. I think most are still comparing him to TGF when no-one can compare to him.
To make matters worse, RB looks like a lost man at the moment. He doesn't really look part of the team (never really has) and looks completely demoralised at the situation he's in - TGF is flogging him and the press are not leaving him alone about the status in the team business etc. However, I agree with most (and who wouldn't) that RB is no match for TGF, but then again, who is and has been? No-one. All his team-mates (Piquet, Brundle, Patrese, Verstappen, Lehto, Herbert, Irvine, RB) have all fallen by the wayside due to his dominance of the team. I do feel sorry for RB as he was so confident at the beginning of last year and really thought he could give TGF a run for his money, but the truth is always crushing when you delude yourself. I think the best thing for him to do is get out of Ferrari and 'find' himself again. |
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6 Sep 2001, 13:16 (Ref:142444)
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#36 | ||
 Race Official20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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I never compared RB to TGF. Never will.
Even before RB join Ferrari, he used to call TGF, "the boss". This clearly explains what level he put himself. As I posted before, I think RB is a good driver, the problem is how he suited himself into F1. Knowing that I'll get some people angry, last weekend at Spa, a brazilian reporter asked JPM, after TGF 52nd win, who he considered to be the best driver, Senna or TGF. JPM replied: "Why are you questioning this ? There's no question about it: Senna, never the other " 
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6 Sep 2001, 13:43 (Ref:142464)
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#37 | |||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 262
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6 Sep 2001, 14:58 (Ref:142502)
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#38 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,917
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Strange that JPM answered the qns this way...
Not too long ago, when Michael and JPM had the Austria tiff... a friend asked me who i consider to be the best... and with a grin i retorted ""Why are you questioning this ? There's no question about it: Michael, never the other."  And regarding Rubens, i have to get somethings off my chest. It is almost criminal for anybody who believes that Michael and Ferrari had destroyed Rubens. I think that all the believes that Austria's team orders had made Rubens less of a driver he ever was is off mark. Firstly, the team order isnt neccessary, i have to admit. But on hindside, Rubens got the place not fully due to his work, but that Michael fell foul to a desperate attempt from JPM to defend his place. Think Melbourne 98 Case Mclaren. Furthermore, knowing how close WDC's can get, every point is important, from a team's point of view, its correct. And to say it would destroy Rubens, i think that a driver if so mentally weak as to be swayed by this, would not be fit to be a top shelve driver. Rubens tend to be more emotional, but i think this had taught him to grow tougher. Ruben's had been given equal equipment throughout the season. Never did Ferrari just deploy developement on ONE car but not the other (read Williams). Sure, Brawn spent more time discussing with Michael, but so did Pollock with Villeneuve, Ron and Newey with Mika, etc. This is a fact that a better driver in a team tends to be treated with more focus. But that is not to say nobody cares for Rubens. I think Ferrari had handled their 2nd driver more fairer than many other teams had... Rubens had been given the opportunity. And he had done what he can to prove his worth. And in my opinion, he did a great job despite the difficulties, and deserve his place. Com'on, if DC could drive the best machines for his whole career, why can't we give Ruben's a break in a top car. Isnt that what we hoped for in the past "Give Rubinho a good car and see him roar..."? You think he lost his motivation, he isnt half the driver he was? I beg to disagree. HOCKENHEIM, HUNGARY, SPA. 3 very different circuit. A superfast, a superslow, and a drivers circuit. In Hockenheim, he matched Michael's performance, and put in a inspired drive. Its a fact nobody could touch the Williams that day, and Rubens did the best he could. He took David before DC retired, showing that he would have no problems coming ahead DC. He made great overtaking moves (although with the help of a light car) and displayed his aggressive and assertive edge. In Hungary, he could match DC's pace. Dispite being pressured so closely by an aggressive scot, he did not mistakes like Irvine did on the same track in 99. Clean driving, not overpushing his car. Showing he had brains after all. In Spa. On record, it may look bad. A silly mistake, and lost places to GF, DC and Mika. But look at the race itself. Tried to muscle his way past GF, though to no avail for a couple of laps before slowing to pace himself. Can't blame him. GF was inspired that day, even good o' DC had a tough time. Rubens was held up by GF when Mika came in earlier to pit, and had an empty track to pull in the vital seconds. Rubens ended up just behind Mika, despite the delay, and was mounting a serious challenge. He was clearly quicker than Mika. DC got past Rubens after he had a clean run just before his pits too. Then Rubens made a mistake. But which driver doesnt? He clipped his front wing, but Mika hinted it may be contact between the Mclaren and Ferrari instead of Ferrari kissing the kerb. It shows Ruben's speed and aggressiveness. And sure, he ended with a broken nose with a full lap of Spa. Yet he tried to put up a resistance to the Jordans who are itching to pass. And when he rejoined out of the points, he pushed and overtook Alesi to get back. Did he give up and settle for his place? hell, no. So what? you think... An Alesi in a Jordan isnt such a glamourous overtaking move is it? But the same man held up Ralf (who many acclaim to be a pretty good driver, with A WILLIAMS BMW) who despite the best of efforts could not get pass. My point. Rubens is a good driver in his own rights. Ruben's isnt as good as Michael, but to be fair, nobody on the current grid is. Rubens did a good job at Ferrari which just happened to be shadowed by Michael. Comparing Rubens to Michael is not really appropriate. To condemn Rubens like some of you do is unfair. Give him a break. Geez...cant belief i'm typing so much for that chap... 
Last edited by Gt_R; 6 Sep 2001 at 15:00. |
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6 Sep 2001, 15:47 (Ref:142519)
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#39 | |||||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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Quote:
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Last edited by Bononi; 6 Sep 2001 at 15:48. |
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6 Sep 2001, 22:23 (Ref:142726)
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#40 | |||
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Racer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 479
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6 Sep 2001, 22:25 (Ref:142727)
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#41 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 132
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look my rules
1. DO NOT MESS WITH ALESI 2. DO NOT MESS WITH ME 3. DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE TO MAKE ME |
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7 Sep 2001, 00:07 (Ref:142827)
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#42 | ||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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Oh my God.
Another one... |
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7 Sep 2001, 00:12 (Ref:142829)
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#43 | |||
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Racer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 479
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7 Sep 2001, 00:41 (Ref:142843)
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#44 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,917
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Jean and snakepit...
darn..i am just trying to be sacarstic to some of Ruben's critics who might just take Rubens move on Jean for granted...not critising Alesi! Me messing with Alesi? I had not ever spoken ill of that man! and one of those who believes Alesi deserves his place in F1 now... i am proud of his performance in Spa, was excited when he got a Jordan drive, i respect his skills and talents, sympathise his poor luck. i love this guy and here 2 of you actually accuse me of messing him up!! Hey i mean it when i say "ALESI IS A HELL OF A DRIVER YAH??" Go go go
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7 Sep 2001, 00:52 (Ref:142845)
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#45 | ||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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GT_R,
You're growing old and wise !
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7 Sep 2001, 04:16 (Ref:142892)
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#46 | |||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 479
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7 Sep 2001, 04:31 (Ref:142896)
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#47 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,917
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Its hard not to get old when mixing with you people here...
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7 Sep 2001, 04:32 (Ref:142897)
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#48 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 11,402
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He he!
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7 Sep 2001, 05:13 (Ref:142908)
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#49 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,491
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Rubens to Minardi BMW
What I would love to see is Rubens move to Minardi BMW - that would be good for his soul. But that would never happen - Minardi will never get the BMW and Rubens will never drive for Minardi.
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7 Sep 2001, 08:27 (Ref:142956)
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#50 | ||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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