Escort (racer?), Reg no DKP 191T

[chunterer]

That's one helluva story for that car!!!!!

[G.Walker]

a unique car, with a unique story

[ORP]

Originally Posted by chunterer

That might well have been the first ever Thundersaloon meeting in March 1985? Brands Hatch in spring, judging by the weather and the lack of leaves on the trees.

That is definitely Woodman's Capri, and the MK3 Capri parked in the awning could be Terry Nicholls' car?

Could the Griffin 323 have won its class in the Thunderloons race, or were Modsaloons racing as well? As redshoes has pointed out by the Cleland reference, prodsaloons must've been there too.

New to 10 tenths! It was the first Shell Oils Thundersaloon meeting March 16/17 1985. The Woodman Capri was driven by Vince and Jonathan Buncombe, the Mk3 Capri is the Terry Nicholls/Holman Blackburn car.
The meeting was called 'Saloon Car Festival', so yes Chunterer there was a Modsaloon race and Prodsaloon race.

The Escort MkII in the thread was entered in Class A of Thundersaloons, driven by Richard Williamson/Mark Spencer.

[chunterer]

Welcome ORP!!

What a way to mark your first post as a new member by providing some top answers and info!!

I knew there was a Williamson involved with that Escort somewhere!!!

You're clearly a saloon car racing fan?

[ORP]

Thanks Chunterer, yes I did go to a couple of the early Thundersaloon rounds - enjoyed the sounds of the GA's!

[chunterer]

Absolutely ORP!! Staying OT a second, that Nicholl's Capri was a fabulous car. I remember seeing it in a special saloons race at Thruxton in 1984. Looked and sounded sensational!

(note to self: might be worth asking the question about it's origins in the CC Capri thread!)

[Gloves]

Going by what the previous owner said in the reply on the link, the car had some serious money spent on it. A new Gartrac shell and a Terry Hoyle BDX would not have been cheap in the 80's. It sounds like they had quite a few problems getting it to run properly so not sure if they finished any races...anyone have some results from that year?

[KA]

An interesting footnote to the story- after 'DKP' was rebuilt into the Gartrac shell, the original MCD shell was sold to Charles Eveson who repaired it and used it to reshell his own 'LVX945J' (ex-Hannu Mikkola 1971 Safari car, bought by Eveson in the 70's, later sold on and reshelled into a Mk2, before being bought back by Eveson....) http://www.rs2.co.uk/lvx.htm

[Mark.A.S]

Gloves, just found this, thank you for the pics, do you have any more?
Yes, that was my car in 1985 at Brands, first TS event, complete disaster for us, as Terry Hoyle who built the engine, shall we say, had no idea how to make it work on the RS200 inlet manifold injection system at the time.
I got it runing well eventually but Richard had had enough by then. It did go well glad you found my posting about the history etc
Anyone wanting to kow any details about this car, do please ask, i like talking about it
Cheers
Mark Spencer

[Gloves]

Originally Posted by Mark.A.S

Gloves, just found this, thank you for the pics, do you have any more?
Yes, that was my car in 1985 at Brands, first TS event, complete disaster for us, as Terry Hoyle who built the engine, shall we say, had no idea how to make it work on the RS200 inlet manifold injection system at the time.
I got it runing well eventually but Richard had had enough by then. It did go well glad you found my posting about the history etc
Anyone wanting to kow any details about this car, do please ask, i like talking about it
Cheers
Mark Spencer

Great to hear the story from the horse's mouth so to speak... Unfortunatly these 2 pictures are the only ones I have, but please can you let us know any more about how you got on during the rest of the season and what happened to the car after?

[Mark.A.S]

Unfortunately, we only entered 2 races in TS with this car. The first at Brands as discussed was not so good, as the engine would not boost at all. TH really had no idea how to make a turbo work, especially on the RS200 injection system. The huge Manifold was open into the 4 into 1 part which fed into the KKK Turbo which was from a 935 Porsche!
I think this engine was only giving maybe 100 bhp like this, with neat fuel spurting out of the 4 into 1 !! it really was hopeless, and a tad embarrassing!. I did practise, so did Richard for a couple of laps, as was the rules then [ I think ]
As you can imagine we were very slow, last by quite some time, in fact the C O C did not really want us to start, but I pleaded with him hoping, that we might get some boost!
Anyway, we did not, I started last, but managed to outbreak someone into Druids, got yellow flagged, and excluded!, not a good start!
After this, we had a Meeting with TH at Richards house to hammer out what to do, we had both spent a lot of money [ about 6k each ish!! ] on modifying the Car, only to have it slower than when it was in Rally trim with a N/A BDG on Injection. I welded up the Exhaust 4 into 1 to seal the exhaust gasses into the Turbo.
The outcome was to put the Engine [ iron block BDX ] on the Dellorto’s that Lotus were using on the Turbo Esprit. We took the car to TH place, to fit the Dellerto’s, and plumb it all in etc. As ever, this job took a lot longer than expected, we got it running, and decided to make a dash to Snetterton to test. We arrived at Snetterton about 4.30 pm, by the time we got unloaded the track had closed, so I drove it up and down the concrete perimeter road. Lots of splutter splutter bang bang as it tried to come on boost, no joy. TH changed some jets in the carbs, which were basically Huge! To let more fuel in, I went out again, splutter splutter, wallop! In came around 400 plus bhp at 5k, and boy did it go!, that made me smile!
Richard had a go, but, I think he was not comfy with the engines on/off power delivery, the car, coped superbly with it, having very good traction.
So, we entered the next TS race at Snetterton, we both practised, but Richard was not happy, I qualified about 12th I think, not really pushing it, as it was getting very hot quickly!
Come the race [ rolling starts I think ] I went for it, and boy did it go down the strait I just seemed to breeze past other cars, and after 2 laps I was third, my lap times about the same as the leader who I think was Terry Nichols in that beautiful cologne Capri [ Nice bloke ]
However, the temp gauge was going off the clock, so I came in, the bonnet was melting [ it was GRP ] and sagging with it [ funny really!! ] and the turbo was white hot!. That was that, Richard, understandably, had had enough, even though I was all for persisting, and he wanted out. We bought the Engine from Him, so that put the rest of 1985 out of question.
The rest of that year, with help from various people, and a really fun trip to a local RR, after adjusting the carbs, fuel flow etc [ this was done on the A272!! ] I got the engine to stay cool enough to be able to use for long runs, and went back to rallying for 1986. The rest I have detailed in my post on the RS forum.
Apologies for the long post, I like to talk about this car! I wish I still had it!

P.S.
By the way, the Transit, yes, was an Ex Boreham service barge, rusty as a pig, but well sorted, with a 3.1 V6 under the bonnet, it was the fastest Tranny I have ever driven, and towed superbly!

[chunterer]

Hi Mark, thank you for joining us and posting that wonderful story about your Thunderloon exploits with this car which has been the subject of much discussion as i'm sure you've noticed.

I would agree, going from maybe 100 hp to 400+ must've been quite enlightening..... or frightening!!!

I hope you continue with us now you've found us and continue to contribute to the forum!!

[Gloves]

here is DKP in a previous life as a Rothmans car with Ari driving

And here is DKP now at the Goodwood rally stage

[Mark.A.S]

Big Thanks for the pics Frank.
Does anybody have any more??

Does anybody have a contact for Richard Williamson?, i have not spoken to him for 23 years!

[MiniMadness]

Originally Posted by ORP

The meeting was called 'Saloon Car Festival', so yes Chunterer there was a Modsaloon race and Prodsaloon race.

The Escort MkII in the thread was entered in Class A of Thundersaloons, driven by Richard Williamson/Mark Spencer.

One other interesting thing, I do believe this was the first ever Thundersaloon race won by Vince Woodman (best ask Rod Birley, see below)



This also featured a certain Barrie Williams in a Nissan 240RS. I think Bill Griffin won the Modsaloon race. This also feature races for Alfas, Metros, Fiesta Mk1s.

[chunterer]

Yes, I think we mentioned that the Brands event was indeed the first Thundersaloon race minimadness, thanks for reiterating that

Ah yes, Whizzo in that 240RS, well recalled!! I suspect there was just as much sideways action as there would have been from that car in it's natural environment, the forests!!!

[Mark.A.S]

Yes, "Whizzo" was in the 240RS at Snetterton, i remember out breaking him at the end of the strait, he was "on it" as usual!
Nice bloke, he came up to me after the race [ I retired after 3/4 laps ] and said " That things got some grunt, and bloody good brakes", i replied "its got Rally car brakes", he said, "so has mine" with a big smile.

BTW, DKP 191T is now owned by Andrew Haddon, i have spoken to him on the phone, but so far we have not had a good chat about the car, pity.

[Gloves]

Originally Posted by Mark.A.S

Yes, "Whizzo" was in the 240RS at Snetterton, i remember out breaking him at the end of the strait, he was "on it" as usual!
Nice bloke, he came up to me after the race [ I retired after 3/4 laps ] and said " That things got some grunt, and bloody good brakes", i replied "its got Rally car brakes", he said, "so has mine" with a big smile.

Whizzo in the 240RS ....that will be this car

[MiniMadness]

Thats the car, the photos are good quality since this was nearly 24 years ago !! I think I've still got the programme at home somewhere.

Looks like the Capri is a little sorry.

[oneofapair]

Just been having a sort out over the christmas break and found some pics of DKP191T taken at lydden hill at The Barry Reece memorial meeting probably 20 odd years ago.Hopefully of some interest.

[Mark.A.S]

Oh fantastic, thank you for putting these pics up.
This was 1984 at Lydden hill, I had forgotten about a couple of race meetings I did there in DKP.
As you can see from the pics, for a rally car I had it set up well for Tarmac, and I do believe this was the first time I used Avon Slicks, as opposed to Michelin Tarmac rally tyres, which melted from the abuse!
I do believe I put DKP on pole for the race, as it was damp in practise. Tony Davies in the Firenza I think won, I was 3rd or 4th I think.
Pity the race was not wet

[oneofapair]

Originally Posted by Mark.A.S

Oh fantastic, thank you for putting these pics up.
This was 1984 at Lydden hill, I had forgotten about a couple of race meetings I did there in DKP.
As you can see from the pics, for a rally car I had it set up well for Tarmac, and I do believe this was the first time I used Avon Slicks, as opposed to Michelin Tarmac rally tyres, which melted from the abuse!
I do believe I put DKP on pole for the race, as it was damp in practise. Tony Davies in the Firenza I think won, I was 3rd or 4th I think.
Pity the race was not wet

If you go to youtube and look for Barry Reece trophy race, Lydden ,you will see a collection of videos ( three I think) might be of interest to you also.

[Mark.A.S]

Originally Posted by oneofapair

If you go to youtube and look for Barry Reece trophy race, Lydden ,you will see a collection of videos ( three I think) might be of interest to you also.

Thank you, I found them. I enjoyed the damp practise! Some of those special saloons were very quick, it was a lot of fun, and wasn’t it nice to have proper Noisy cars back then.
I did get confused though, I was not on pole, but did lead into the first corner, only to get swamped soon after.
Great days.
Thanks again

[DanMinton]

I do believe I put DKP on pole for the race, as it was damp in practise. Tony Davies in the Firenza I think won, I was 3rd or 4th I think.
Pity the race was not wet

Steve Minton won that day with Ginger Marshal 2nd and Tony davis third.