2010 Crash Helmet regs.

[Al Weyman]

Al, what helmet standard is your AVG?

How would I find out Brickicker, what am I looking for on the helmet. No scruts have mentioned anything this year that it will be no good next year, maybe it is. It has HANS stud holes pre drilled so I would have thought lateish spec. I think I remember when I bought it said it had a kevlar strap is that fireproof???

Oh BTW chaps don't forget a lot of you like me will also have to chuck away your good triple Nomex suits for next year. I tell you what suppliers and manufacturers may be feeling pleased with themselves over the impending new business but be warned there is a straw that will break a camels back especially for older racers like me and Tim and it may well blow up in your faces.

[brickkicker]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

How would I find out Brickicker, what am I looking for on the helmet. No scruts have mentioned anything this year that it will be no good next year, maybe it is. It has HANS stud holes pre drilled so I would have thought lateish spec. I think I remember when I bought it said it had a kevlar strap is that fireproof???

Oh BTW chaps don't forget a lot of you like me will also have to chuck away your good triple Nomex suits for next year. I tell you what suppliers and manufacturers may be feeling pleased with themselves over the impending new business but be warned there is a straw that will break a camels back especially for older racers like me and Tim and it may well blow up in your faces.

Al, if there is not a British standard sticker on the outside then you will need to look under the liner on the inside. It will have a sticker probably SNELL which is about 4" long by 1" and will have either SNELL2000 or SNELL2005 on it. There are also SFI stickers but they are not that common.

[midgetman]

>>>>>>your good triple Nomex suits for next year

Al, Al, Norme 86 suits haven't been made since, ooh, 2002? Possibly 2001 and probably 2000. Now that ain't bad value! I know my ordinary clothing looks a little jaded after that period, and it doesn't have to save my life!

Equally your Snell 2000 hard hat could be 10 years old this year. IMO the MSA's FAR TOO LENIENT on these things. Anyway, that suit you bought off me is 8856-2000 so you're being a touch economical with the facts there...

(f/x the sound of rubbing hands, chinking gold and chuckling Max)

[Al Weyman]

No I am not Malcom, the suit had not ran out and is still in good nick I just bought one from you at the show because (a) It was a v/good deal and I knew this was coming and (b) you are such a nice chap. :-)

Anyhow the helmet is a scrapper its a Snell 2000 although like brand new and worn I suppose 20 or 30 odd times, to be honest I am getting a bit fed up with this now and may well have to consider my future in the sport.

[brickkicker]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Anyhow the helmet is a scrapper its a Snell 2000 although like brand new and worn I suppose 20 or 30 odd times, to be honest I am getting a bit fed up with this now and may well have to consider my future in the sport.

Why is your helmet scrap??? Were has it been published they are out this at the end of the year?
And as for Al being economical with the facts, never

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Anyhow the helmet is a scrapper its a Snell 2000 although like brand new and worn I suppose 20 or 30 odd times, to be honest I am getting a bit fed up with this now and may well have to consider my future in the sport.

The only reason it would be a scrapper is if it's damaged. Considering your future? Yes and I'm selling my racecar.........................again

[Al Weyman]

I am never economical with the facts, anything I have ever written on here is factual and can be checked, do you really think I would come on an open forum and post in my own name and tell silly fibs that will come back on me? Now I may get my lines crossed on occassions and make 2 and 2 add up to 5 and may have here after reading there are Snell 2000 and Snell 2005 standards especially if you are telling me the Snell 2000 standard is OK still. :-) Don't worry even if I had to buy a new un no doubt I would still be out next year, some of us are just gluttons for punishment.

[simes43]

I spoke to Stand 21 directly.

All the helmet manufacturers can only offer Snell 2005 at the moment. This would mean penalising everyone who has to buy new 5 years of service.

Until Snell 2010 is available (around Oct 2010) Snell 2000 can be used.

[Richy_Rich]

Um, so given that I need a new helmet now... What should I be looking for to get maximum lifespan (regs. wise) and when's the best time to go out and shop? I'll be competing mostly, I think, in International events, so I guess I need something from this list...

91. All MSA and International Events
• FIA 8860-2004
• SNELL SA2005
• SNELL SA2000*
• SFI Foundation 31.1A, 31.2A
• BS 6658 Type A/FR
* May be withdrawn with effect from 01/01/10.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by tim dodwell

Referring to the 2009 blue book (p168):
91. BS 6658 Type A/FR
Usually when things are written thing X/Y, it means thing X or thing Y.
92. BS 6658 85 Type A (Type B is not acceptable)*
* Withdrawn with effect from 01/01/10
This suggests to me that Type B is not acceptable from 01/01/10.
The 2008 Motorsports Now mag does NOT mention anything about all this.
If there was a genuine safety issue, I could accept all this - but I still say our heads would be fried before the lining was to catch fire.

BS 6658 Type A/FR is a specific single standard, so type A is 'dead'.

That's handy for me as my helmet is type A/FR, and I want a cheap type A for j
karting. Bummer for anyone who both a type A this year without checking the blue book.

Almost makes up for my forthcoming £250 bill to 'service' by extinguisher.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Almost makes up for my forthcoming £250 bill to 'service' by extinguisher.

£250 why so expensive

[Al Weyman]

Yeah why is that Dennis a new un from Rally Design is only a hundred quid?

[Tim Wilkinson]

What are the MSA regulations on servicing extinguishers? Still vague?

I don't have this years blue book. I'm a little annoyed at having to discard (for racing purposes) a twice-used 3-year old helmet (Type A), but can understand that times move on.

[Al Weyman]

My helmet says it has a nomex lining???

[midgetman]

Al, your helmet will have a Nomex lining because it's Snell 2000. From what I can glean here and elsewhere Snell 2000 is OK for UK racing for another year, it's only International where it's run out. But I haven't made the phone call to the MSA yet, will do on Monday.

Was a bit eggy yesterday, so blame my evil twin brother Malcolm if what I wrote came across a bit sharp Al, sorry, offence not intended.

Max

[davspeed]

Originally Posted by simes43

I spoke to Stand 21 directly.

All the helmet manufacturers can only offer Snell 2005 at the moment. This would mean penalising everyone who has to buy new 5 years of service.

Until Snell 2010 is available (around Oct 2010) Snell 2000 can be used.

So if like me you have been using a type A (they have been ok since I started circuit racing in 1990 but suddenly are not) you now have to buy a Snell 2005 and then get another one in five years time.

[Al Weyman]

No problem Max sorry about Malcolm. :-)

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Yeah why is that Dennis a new un from Rally Design is only a hundred quid?

Because I don't have a hundred quid car I don't have a hundred extinguisher, I have a seven hundred quid one that will actually put the fire out not just buy me time to get out of the car (it's also a lot lighter).

And yes I have had hundred extinguishers and yes I do know how good they aren't. They'll save your life but not necessarily your car.

Like fireproof helmets versus non-fireproof, hans versus no hans, new tyres every race versus every half season versus when they hit the wear bars etc, it's all a balancing act, cost versus benefit etc

[SWCRacing]

I can't believe what I am reading here! Does no-one read the blue book or Motorsport Now?
Don't know where to find the certification of your lid? Refer to section C(c) competitors safety! There are some pictures of the acceptable standards, and the words actually tell you where to find the Snell label!! And unless the MSA issue some direction regarding Snell 2000 and it's acceptability or otherwise, I wouldn't rely on anything posted here
As for race suits, the removal of the FIA 1986 standard for racing has been common knowledge for at least the last 18 months!!
And to use the excuse that you race under an Irish licence is laughable!! You race in the UK under the UK MSA regulations!! Buy a copy of the Blue Book from the MSA! You wouldn't go and race in France or Belgium or Germany etc and not understand the regulations that they run their motorsports under, would you?? And why not download it from the MSA website?
I can't wait for the first races of next year when loads of drivers will be penalised for breaching the Track Regulations!! Guess what? They change next year and the revised regs are in Motorsports Now!! It even answers another question that I have seen somewhere on this forum, namely "Are the kerbs part of the track?" Guess what?? They ain't!!

[Al Weyman]

You are obviously a retailer. I hope for your sake a lot of those penalised drivers that you will delight in seeing getting 'done' dont decide they have had enough and just walk. As for kerbs, untill BTCC get hauled in nothing will change thats nothing new and no one gets penalised for going over them so why will it change. Oh and the fact that the race suit standard has been known for 18 months still does not lessen the blow of the outlay for a new one and is actually why I bought one earlier this year from Max while the price was good, bet they have gone up now. :-)

Denis it will put the fire out surely. Carry a big hand held as well if you are that worried.

[SWCRacing]

I am definately not a retailer of any sort! I hold licences in motorsport.
I just like to know the regulations under which I compete! And I expect others to know them too! It really amuses me that most racers don't realise just how much a transgression on the track could cost them! If they did it would certainly cut down on the number of stupid overtakes that end up in tears, beacause it would focus the mind a bit!
Everything will be costing more because the Pound against the Euro is so bad now, and everything suit-wise seems to come from Euroland (AWS excepted!)! And I too bought a FIA 2000 suit a few years back for the same reason
And as for the BTCC, they are a bit of a law unto themselves when it comes to penalties, and guess what? That fact is in the blue book too!

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Denis it will put the fire out surely. Carry a big hand held as well if you are that worried.

Only if the fire was in the right place. The more expensive ones have much greater coverage and 'run time' and so are more likely to to do the job.

I don't see the point of having two when one decent one can do the job at a far reduced weight and not much, in the scheme of things, increase in cost.

And when I used to send back the cheap ones for a service I always discharged it to reduce the postage cost (and it was fun). Sometimes they wouldn't discharged. Sometimes they just discharged all by themselves, slowly, and with very little trace, which could have resulted in being turned away at scrutineering.

[Al Weyman]

I have never had one leak infact I still have a halogen one on the wall of the workshop thats still OK after 14 years.

Fair enough SC but the problem is the observers report the transgressions and not much is done. As for kerb crossing its now become if you dont do it you end up loosing out on the front runners that will be or they wouldnt be front runners but personally I agree with you and would like to see a major crack down on driving standards and corner cutting.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

infact I still have a halogen one on the wall of the workshop thats still OK after 14 years.

Is it bright?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Only if the fire was in the right place. The more expensive ones have much greater coverage and 'run time' and so are more likely to to do the job.

I don't see the point of having two when one decent one can do the job at a far reduced weight and not much, in the scheme of things, increase in cost.

What make and model is it Dennis? I suspect the one I have would be less than useless as having discharged it before posting it for a service I reckon I could pee on a fire with more effect.