[Team] Changes at Ferrari

[Marbot]

At least next year they won't have to worry about putting fuel in,but they'll still have to make sure they don't get their nuts in a twist.

[Born Racer]

Even in the Brawn days they had that infamous "committee meeting" pitstop of Eddie Irvine's at the Nurburgring in 1999.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Casper

I think Ferrari have returned to their Italian ways, chaos.

Italian ways, chaos... you mean that chaos is the italian way, I presume.
Yeah, like an earthquake, perhaps ? Right in the heart of the country ? That's chaos in every way.

I don't know, but so far, apart from BrawnGP and perhaps Toyota and Williams, everyone seems to be drawning in confusion. Maybe those teams had become so professional and ultra advanced technically that they lost the ability to react quickly or find solutions in an easier way. It's the point of ignorance that the experts fear so much to be reaching when they become too much especialized.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Casper

I think Ferrari have returned to their Italian ways, chaos. I used to like watching their pitstops in the old days and they are starting to become worth watching again.

Nah, it is just two pants races. They have the resources and, despite the above, the infrastructure.
They have been a little slow to react before after changes and these are big changes. Give them time they'll be winning again. Probably not next race, but it won't be too long.

[MrTTraces]

Originally Posted by Casper

I think Ferrari have returned to their Italian ways, chaos. I used to like watching their pitstops in the old days and they are starting to become worth watching again.

Ahhh who can forget the '3 wheeled pitstop' with Eddie Irvine.

Ferrari seem to like chaos methinks, although it can't help improving results though in the short term.

End of the season Kimi will retire (to start an ice cream business, selling exclusively throu grandprix legends) and Hamilton will switch teams to Ferrari.

[stedevil]

AdamAshmore: Nah, it is just two pants races. They have the resources and, despite the above, the infrastructure.
They have been a little slow to react before after changes and these are big changes. Give them time they'll be winning again. Probably not next race, but it won't be too long.

Do remember Ferari looked a mess in the pits all through last year as well. Only reason they still had a driver in contention at the end was because only 1 other team had a car the same quick for most of the season.They dont have that advantage this year...

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Nah, it is just two pants races. They have the resources and, despite the above, the infrastructure.
They have been a little slow to react before after changes and these are big changes. Give them time they'll be winning again. Probably not next race, but it won't be too long.

I don't know Adam. The team is again almost fully in the hands of Italians. I predict a return to pre Schumacher silliness. And now, having missed the boat on the diffusers? Does not look good to me.

Forza Brawn!

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

I don't know Adam. The team is again almost fully in the hands of Italians. I predict a return to pre Schumacher silliness. And now, having missed the boat on the diffusers? Does not look good to me.

Forza Brawn!

Ferrari and the words "organisation and order" do not belong in the same sentence. It is almost like their genetic make up defies any attempt to overcome chaos. When they were at the top in the last few years it was not the Italians who drove it, German, French & English organisation got them to the top, nothing else. I don't care if they win or lose, it is just fun watching.

[Dutton]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari are part way down the slope into a slump. I'd say 2006 saw some cracks appearing, and it has continued from there. The reliability and operational standards have been getting worse since then.

The simple fact is Ferrari have been there-or-thereabouts since 1997 (2005 was something of an exception, but they weren't a thousand miles away). They've experienced some extraordinary domination in these years.

It has always been an inevitability that Ferrari will, sometime, go into something of a barren spell. That this would happen in the post-Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/etc. era was also the most likely scenario. To suggest an infinite run at or near the top is insane.

Perhaps we are not in the initial phases of that decline, but it is completely possible that we are.

[Burnsie]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

They have the resources and, despite the above, the infrastructure ... Give them time they'll be winning again. Probably not next race, but it won't be too long.

"Ferrari boss Stefano Domenicali says the Italian team may switch its development focus onto the 2010 car as early as next month if its fortunes do not improve dramatically in the next few races":

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74644

[Knowlesy]

Let's hope that idea works as well as this one has so far.

[Burnsie]

It's far too early for Ferrari to throw the towel in for 2009, but if their fortunes don't change soon...

[Marbot]

Do they actually know what the 'exact' regulations are for a 2010 car yet.This,as we already have seen,can be very important.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Do they actually know what the 'exact' regulations are for a 2010 car yet.This,as we already have seen,can be very important.

From what I gather, the cars will be pretty much the same, but these things might change...

- Standard KERS
- No wheel aero inserts
- No refuelling

Those are the only ones I have heard mentioned, though there could be more, or none at all, it is the FIA after all.

[grantp]

So let's see.

With constant year-on-year significant rule changes and vastly reduced budgets does anyone have the capacity to run a 'bespoke' business like an F1 team and succeed, to some extent, every year?

Perhaps not. So they start to compete fully only every other year - following the Brawn development 'model'. Therefore only half the teams, at most, are competitive in any one year and the others are makeweights to fill the grid. Or worse.

Ok, well no problem with that really it's been lke that from the start. (Unless you are a top driver of course, in which case you may be a little put out. That may lead to annual contracts ...)

On the other hand sponsors may be less enthusiastic seeing the benefit of success one year evaporate before they can make it pay.

Thus might we end up with a version of Max M's kit car standard engine (and chassis?) proposal? Level playing field and all that.

A pal of mine did some work on developing creative thinking with one of the teams - he never told me which one. This was a few years ago now. His observation was that they were not actually very creative as an organisation (though individuals might have been) nor too interested in considering how they could adapt and adopt new ideas quickly.

So compared to, say, the early 70s when F1 fist moved into serious commercial sponsorship and started its change from a hazardous sport to a advertising hoarding parade, the emphasis seems to be on production engineering quality deliverinig reliability and rule changes leaving little else to play with other than aero. Most of the team is involved in production not creation.

Back in the 70s engineering was less able than today - there was simply not the machining kit about to deliver today's engineering tolerances at an affordable price - so stuff broke, regularly, and creative thinking was required to work around an immediate problem and then engineer around it in time for the next race, probably without being able to test in the meantime. Production was important along with quality of work if you wanted the results but creativity kept teams at the head of the game.

I guess that creativity is what has happened this year with Brawn - unless they run out of money before landing an advertiser for THIS year that can get a swift return or is not put off by the thought of sharing the team with the half hearted Branson involvement and his Eco dreams in 2010.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

From what I gather, the cars will be pretty much the same, but these things might change...

........

- No refuelling

In which case, unless they have designed that in to this year's cars, I can't see how that will leave things much the same

[Born Racer]

Great post grantp.

creative thinking was required to work around an immediate problem and then engineer around it in time for the next race, probably without being able to test in the meantime.

Of course this year, track testing is extraordinarily resticted, but given that teams will be spending vast amounts on simulation work and CFD, the latter of which will also to an extent take over some of the role of testing on a circuit, the development is still taking place but away from the place where it matters most. I find this a pity, as if they're going to chuck money around, I'd like to at least see it done driving the cars.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Burnsie

"Ferrari boss Stefano Domenicali says the Italian team may switch its development focus onto the 2010 car as early as next month if its fortunes do not improve dramatically in the next few races":

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74644

Stefano must tell what he thinks to the drivers then...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74647

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Do they actually know what the 'exact' regulations are for a 2010 car yet.

I guess that depends on what you mean with exact. The regs are sort of finished 2½ years in advance (and usually downloadable from the FIA website from that time on). But still, some changes can happen later than that and even in the running season if all teams agree. So in short, depending on your definition of exact, the answer can range from "Yes, they already know even the 20111 regs" to "No, they only know after the last race of 2010 has finished" :P

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Great post grantp.

Of course this year, track testing is extraordinarily resticted, but given that teams will be spending vast amounts on simulation work and CFD, the latter of which will also to an extent take over some of the role of testing on a circuit, the development is still taking place but away from the place where it matters most. I find this a pity, as if they're going to chuck money around, I'd like to at least see it done driving the cars.

What if we banned air tunnel testing, but allowed extensive track testing (not necessarily limitless, but a lot)?

Perhaps introduce the same thing as a bit back where you can go for limited kms testing, but get extra race weekend track time. Give Wednesday on race week as a limitless mileage day for otherwise restricted teams. [Teams not taking that choice only have to arrive for normal time.]

I am just trying to think of alternatives. I am just thinking that all the computery-jazz is surely going to become ever more expensive as it becomes ever more worthwhile to invest in it.

Why not try and work it so the non-track options are seriously limited, but track stuff open? This way the cars are out there for the public to go and see. Create legislation which dictates all track testing must have free public admission (the public must be allowed into private facilities [thinking Ferrari here]) - including straight-line airfield tests.

If we are to limit anything in testing in the name of costs, why not limit the invisible? Work things so the teams running cars in the glare of public eyes in the only viable option.

[Marbot]

It may be a great idea to allow free admission to tests,and I'd be there if possible,but it goes against the 'green' part of F1s 'new' image because we'll have the cars being driven for thousands of kms for no other reason than to get them to go fractions of a second faster.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

From what I gather, the cars will be pretty much the same, but these things might change...

- Standard KERS
- No wheel aero inserts
- No refuelling

Those are the only ones I have heard mentioned, though there could be more, or none at all, it is the FIA after all.

And now! Introducing..............

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74697

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

And now! Introducing..............

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74697

What next for heavens sake?

[Bononi]

More than just one supplier. Please.

[kurski]

Sources claim Densham not off to Ferrari

Jul.5 (GMM) Highly rated Formula 1 designer Tim Densham is not bound for Ferrari following his departure from Renault, contrary reports doing the rounds recently including on YallaF1.com report here>>>

It emerged earlier that the Enstone based team’s long-time chief designer has left Renault, not long after speculation linked him with a switch to Ferrari.

Confirmation of Densham’s departure had been reported by a Greek website. Densham worked closely with Fernando Alonso in his championship seasons at Renault and was thought to be part of the top guns the Spaniard is trying to entice to the team to create a force reminicent to the Schumacher era at Maranello.

But a source at gocar.gr insisted on Tuesday that the Ferrari gossip is wide of the mark, as Densham has stepped down for personal reasons and intends to retire from the sport altogether.

Deputy Martin Tolliday has taken over 56-year-old Densham’s role at Renault.

Hopefully Densham will Ferrari team and I hope he does not stop his career...

Pat Fry's arrival after the Ferrari has already been transformed by four engineers from McLaren says Omnicorse.it. These guys are in name, Rupart Daraker, Giacomo Tortora, James Dove, and Ioannis Veludis.