Group A Nissan Skyline DR30 and HR31

[racer69]

Howard Marsden originally had big plans for 1989, even after the ETCC was so sadly scrapped, the plan being for a car or two in national championships (BTCC & DTM i presume). It obviously never happened.

Similiarly the 1988 ETCC campaign was more low-key than originally intended (though they had planned in the first place, like everyone else, on the WTCC continuing into 1988), the original plan calling for two cars by mid-season (Seton & Fury were meant to be part of a two-car Spa entry, which wound up being the one car for Grice/Percy/Oloffson)

Originally Posted by Nivola

Now just got to find some images. But it is a basis to start from.

Here is the Ricoh HR31 entry from the 1987 WTCC round at Mt Fuji

[chavez]

Originally Posted by PZR

And this quote from 1987-ish has direct relevance to the situation surrounding the Gr.A R32 GT-R, which debuted in 1989?

Please explain!

This was referring to the DR30 as per the topic heading.

[PZR]

Originally Posted by chavez

This was referring to the DR30 as per the topic heading.

You added it underneath a quote from me where I was writing about the situation surrounding the Gr.A R32 GT-R. I don't see the connection between the homologation of parts for the DR30 and the homologation of parts for the BNR32?

Two quite different sets of circumstances I think.

[KA]

Originally Posted by racer69

Howard Marsden originally had big plans for 1989, even after the ETCC was so sadly scrapped, the plan being for a car or two in national championships (BTCC & DTM i presume). It obviously never happened.

Similiarly the 1988 ETCC campaign was more low-key than originally intended (though they had planned in the first place, like everyone else, on the WTCC continuing into 1988), the original plan calling for two cars by mid-season (Seton & Fury were meant to be part of a two-car Spa entry, which wound up being the one car for Grice/Percy/Oloffson)

I've also read suggestions that the NME HR31 was at one point a possible Bathurst entry in 88, but the idea fell through- reasons quoted including clashing tyre supply contracts (NME on Yokos and Gibson's cars on Dunlop) and a lack of time for rework the car to a spec suitable for Bathurst once it reached Australia, as Gibson's workshops were fully occupied rebuilding the car rolled during a pre-Bathurst publicity event. Grice and Percy eventually raced a Les Small Commodore instead

[PZR]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Regarding the Japanese factory NISMO cars, am I right in assuming that these cars were in fact run by Masahiro Hasemi and Kazuyoshi Hoshino respectively - one car each?

Jesper,

Hasemi and Hoshino's cars were actually both full Works NISMO cars, but running under the banners of each of these star drivers' personal teams; 'IMPUL' / 'Hoshino Racing' and 'Hasemi Motor Sports'. The cars were in effect loaned to the two teams, but looked after in the main by NISMO and run and engineered at the races by a mixture of staff - inc. NISMO personnel on loan. Those two teams would be pretty much at the front of the queue for new parts development and data, with Hoshino's crew possibly a little in front of Hasemi's.


If you are using machine translation of the JAF website results section, watch out for errors - particularly in Japanese names, which are particularly hard to translate correctly. For example, "Hajime" Kitano should actually be read as 'Moto', and "Haruto" Yanagida's full given name is 'Haruhito'. This kind of thing can trick us into believing that one driver is actually two different people......

[PZR]

Originally Posted by KA

Thanks, that would be great- I'll PM you an email address. Alternatively, you could post directly in the 'Rover SD1' thread-
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81326
If there's anything on that car that you could add to the thread, it would be of great interest.

Got your PM. I'll send you an e-mail with pics later this morning ( UK time ).

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by PZR

Got your PM. I'll send you an e-mail with pics later this morning ( UK time ).

And as the good man requests, please do add the info you have directly into the Rover thread if you can. Many thanks.

This is a great little thread developing by the way. I'll have to dig out my pics of the NME car from the 1988 Donny 500. Got a nice one of it coming out of the Melbourne hairpin on opposite lock, although it's a little blurred and I can't tell who's driving it!

As KA and racer69 are expanding on, I agree that there were quite decent plans for the European HR31/GTS-R campaign after 1988. The ETC was supposed to be the priority but the BTCC may well have received a full entry for at least one car. It would be interesting to speculate who would've driven in any full BTCC season, as there may well have been a few clashing ETC rounds which surely would have meant Percy and/or Grice wouldn't have been able to compete in a full BTCC campaign.

Have to admit I wasn't aware of the DTM ideas though?

[racer69]

Originally Posted by KA

I've also read suggestions that the NME HR31 was at one point a possible Bathurst entry in 88, but the idea fell through- reasons quoted including clashing tyre supply contracts (NME on Yokos and Gibson's cars on Dunlop) and a lack of time for rework the car to a spec suitable for Bathurst once it reached Australia, as Gibson's workshops were fully occupied rebuilding the car rolled during a pre-Bathurst publicity event. Grice and Percy eventually raced a Les Small Commodore instead

The stuff surrounding the NME entry in the 1988 Bathurst 1000 was almost comical. I'll have to dig the "Auto Action" magazines of the time out for the full story, but it was basically a case of no, yes, no when it came to the car.

Grice & Percy were originally slated for a third works TWR HSV Commodore at Bathurst in 1988 (presumebly #40, which in the end was the oldest Commodore they had in the fleet, and was just used during practice).

Then it was decided the ETCC Nissan would come to Bathurst to join the two Australian cars, with Grice & Percy driving as they were the contracted steerers.

However just a few weeks out from the race it was decided the car would afterall stay in Europe and the entry was scratched. From memory the main reason given by Fred Gibson was:-

(A) it would have been based in their workshop, and they already had their hands full as KA mentioned, and

(B) it made no sense to bring the car out from Europe, run Bathurst, then fly it back again (as the 1988 ETCC wasn't finished), when it was a different beast to the local team, and anyway Nissan already had two works-backed cars entered for the race.

Not that it mattered, both cars were out of the race within 15mins


The late pull-out left Grice & Percy high and dry. Percy got onto Tom Walkinshaw about reviving the third HSV Commodore idea which was canned when the Nissan was coming, but it wasn't really a goer.

Les Small had a new TWR-spec Commodore free (the sister car to the Rogers/Andretti entry) for Grice & Percy to use if they could get the money together (if not, Small said he would take the car to Bathurst as a spare for Rogers/Andretti). Ultimatly they got some backing from FAI Insurance & Bob Jane T-Marts to run the car there, but an article in AA just weeks out from the race quotes Grice as saying it would be unlikely he would race (while Percy was being linked as a third/reserve driver at TWR/HSV)

Thats how i remember it, i'll look through the old "Auto Actions" for the full story.

Originally Posted by chunterer

Have to admit I wasn't aware of the DTM ideas though?

There is nothing official in that, just i have a quote from Howard Marsden saying he wanted Nissan's to be racing in the main domestic championships in Europe in 1989 (after the ETCC was canned), presumebly that would have included at least exploring the DTM (would the handicapping rules there have been attractive to them?)

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by PZR

If you are using machine translation of the JAF website results section, watch out for errors - particularly in Japanese names, which are particularly hard to translate correctly. For example, "Hajime" Kitano should actually be read as 'Moto', and "Haruto" Yanagida's full given name is 'Haruhito'. This kind of thing can trick us into believing that one driver is actually two different people......

Ouch! I am aware that not everything is tranlated correct by Babelfish. I did this work a couple of years ago, so I cannot remember the details, but some names simply wasn't translated, others were translated something like "flowing river" and others seemed quite plausible - those must be the tricky ones!
The Bridgestone site used to have an English language results page, but that has obviously disappeared. Autosport used to report the top-10 finishers, at least from late '88 when my stack beginns. Furthermore I cross checked with single seater series like FNippon and F3 and the All-Japan Sports Car Championship of similar vintage, to see if any new names emerged among the group A tourers and sometimes they did.
I'll probably do a review of my current data and return with relevant questions regarding translation of names - a threat in itself?

Jesper

[PZR]

Jesper,
No criticism from me. I think you are doing a great job. I only mentioned it as it can be confusing when you get two different translations of a driver name and think that they are two different people.

If it's any consolation, even the Japanese themselves have trouble reading Japanese names without Hiragana 'prompts' to help them read the Kanji correctly....

If you need any help on the Japanese side of your research don't hesitate to ask me. I'd be pleased to try and be of assistance.

[Jesper OH]

Thank you, PZR, I will take up your offer in due time . One thing I did learn to appreciate about the Japanese signs, were the fact that surnames are first, first names last.

Regarding the Hoshino/Hasemi/NISMO relationship, looking into 1990 and the BNR32 period, Hoshino and Hasemi were the only two to run the new car, with a third added late in the season.

Around the time of the final '88 ETCC race at Nogaro (mid September 1988), Autosport reported that Allan Grice and the Les Small Commodore was partly go, that Yokohama tires were involved, and through the tire brand Emanuelle Pirro was rumoured to partner Grice!

Jesper

[drbob]

The Murray Carter DR30 was logbooked on 17 September 1985. Its first race was at Sandown on 12 April 1986.
At Bathurst in 1986 Carter drove with Bill O'Brien with Everlast Battery Service sponsorship.Finished 10th and 3rd in class B
In 1987 Carter raced at Bathurst in the car with Steve Masterton. They finished 15th after starting in 30th position That was in the Netcomm colours as previously mentioned. Great looking colour scheme.
The sun strip on the windshield also had Horley as a driver. What is the story about that . Did he drive. Netcomm apparently installed in-car communications and this was the subject of an ABC programme, Beyond 2000 Does any one have a copy of the show.
Carter sold the car to Matt Whacker in April 1988. It ran in a few rounds of the ATCC in 88 but I am not sure if it raced at Bathurst that year. Did it?
Clive Smith then bought the car in May 1989 What was the Group A history with Clive Smith. I know he did Bathurst in 1989 with ? Paul Trevethan. They finished 22nd after starting on grid 47. He also did the Sandown 500. At the end of 1989 the DR30 was no longer eligible for Group A apparently.
Clive later ran the car as a sports sedan from 1990 to September 2003 and then sold it in 2004.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by drbob

The sun strip on the windshield also had Horley as a driver. What is the story about that . Did he drive. Netcomm apparently installed in-car communications and this was the subject of an ABC programme, Beyond 2000 Does any one have a copy of the show.

I don't think Denis Horley made the qualifying cut-off laptime, which is why Masterton was given a steer.

Horley did race the Netcomm car though, he drove (and crashed) it in the AGP Support race in Adelaide later that year.

It was installed with live in-car telemetry at Bathurst, and was used during the Channel 7 coverage of the race. "Beyond 2000" was a Channel 7 show also

[Nivola]

nice post dr bob

[Jesper OH]

Three Japanese DR30's - my guess is 1986:
http://www.geocities.jp/e34525nena/dr30.html

...and some '87 Intertec 500 pictures:
http://amagawa.hp.infoseek.co.jp/87-GroupAR5.html

...and finaly a newer picture of Matt Wackers DR30 from a more recent meeting I think:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7529046@N04/515552613/

Jesper

[drbob]

Correction :
Jesper those Matt Wacker photos made me look at the date Wacker got the car from Murray Carter.
Carter ran the car at the Sandown ATCC round at Sandown in May 1988 so he could not have sold the car to Wacker in April of 88 unless he did a deal to keep the car for that race .So it must have been July 1988 that Wacker bought the car. The logbook has both the April and July dates but the July one is crossed out, hence my error.
The Wacker photo is from the Enzed 500 at Sandown in September 1988 although what looks like an RX3 in the background makes you think twice about it.
I see from Wacker's photos that he also had one of the Moffat Group C RX7's

[Jesper OH]

Having a look in the '88 Bathurst book, the Wacker/Kogge DR30 wore #42!

Murray Carter should have raced his two race old RS500, but broke his only engine in friday practice and was a non-starter. There's no pictures of neither car, but a group A race during the late 80's and Carter not wearing #14!

That group C Mazda thing don't sit nicely with a Australian group A race from the time. There were simply cars enoughs to fill the grids.

But a nice gesture of Matt Wacker to race his car with it's original startnumber though - if that's the case.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7529046@N04/tags/sandown/ - Ah, this might explain things. Here the car wears #42!

Jesper

[drbob]

Found Matt Wacker and spoke to him.
Apparently there was a mix up in the car numbers and there were two #14 's entered, Carters Sierra and Wackers Skyline ( which he practised with #14)
Wacker also entered a Walkinshaw Commodore #42. Wacker was then made to change his number to #42.The Commodore did not race.

As for the RX3 he thinks that may have been one of Larry Kogge's mates racing Kogge's old car. There was a media day on the Thursday and a number of different cars practised at the same time. The track was also breaking up and because of loss of time a number of different categories of cars were sent out again at the same time. Hence the RX3 in the same photo as the Group A Skyline

For Bathurst '88 Wacker entered both the Skyline and Walkinshaw Commodore but because the field was oversubscribed his entries were not accepted.

Wacker fondly recalls the car as being bullet proof and thinks he ran third at the Pepsi 300 (or was it 250 in '88).

[chavez]

I don't think that the first picture of the Wacker Skyline is Sandown.

[drbob]

You might be right Chavez. Wacker's photo site says it is at Oran Park and Sandown. But where is it ?

[chavez]

Originally Posted by drbob

You might be right Chavez. Wacker's photo site says it is at Oran Park and Sandown. But where is it ?

Winton?

[racer69]

Definatly Winton to me, the loop before the (old?) back straight (where Perkins & Johnson came together on the first lap of the 1988 ATCC round).

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

That group C Mazda thing don't sit nicely with a Australian group A race from the time. There were simply cars enoughs to fill the grids.

The Group C Mazda mentioned was more to do with the fact that Matt Wacker raced one in Sport Sedans, rather than mentioning the Mazda in that photo.

Strictly speaking no Group C cars (in that spec) raced at any point in Group A over here. There were a number of converted cars (most notably one of the JPS Team BMW 635csi's that later went to Jim Keogh, and the Roadways/Allan Grice/Warren Cullen Commodore's from Bathurst 1985), mostly back of the grid Dolomites and Capri's, which quickly disappeared from the scene.

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by drbob

Found Matt Wacker and spoke to him.
Apparently there was a mix up in the car numbers and there were two #14 's entered, Carters Sierra and Wackers Skyline ( which he practised with #14)
Wacker also entered a Walkinshaw Commodore #42. Wacker was then made to change his number to #42.The Commodore did not race.

As for the RX3 he thinks that may have been one of Larry Kogge's mates racing Kogge's old car. There was a media day on the Thursday and a number of different cars practised at the same time. The track was also breaking up and because of loss of time a number of different categories of cars were sent out again at the same time. Hence the RX3 in the same photo as the Group A Skyline.

Thanks for clearing up this detail, drbob.

Slightly OT: Neither the DR30 or the HR31 was ever officially on sale in Europe, which explains why no one ever raced them except the Nissan Motorsports Europe team of '88.

Jesper

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Neither the DR30 or the HR31 was ever officially on sale in Europe, which explains why no one ever raced them except the Nissan Motorsports Europe team of '88. Jesper

Interesting point. The DR30 appeared to be quite reliable and competitive cars and one would've thought Graham Goode would've tried to get his hands on one after his 180 Bluebird project. However I think it's been mentioned by likes of VIVA and ghinzani on other threads that Graham's relationship with Nissan wasn't exactly favourable after they didn't help him much with the 180 in 1984/5.

I do recall big rumours that Kent Baigent or somebody was seriously thinking of entering his DR30 in the 1986 or 87 BTCC - I guess with a view to trying to sell it?

[chunterer]

As promised a couple of shots of the 1988 ETC Nissan Europe GTS-R/HR31.

The first image is of the car on the grid ready for the Donington 500 in April with Jolly Jacques Laffite wandering towards it!.

Second is the car in full flow exiting the Melbourne hairpin about half way through the race. I think Grice is at the wheel, can't be sure.