Qld 300 dropped from Biante Historic Touring Car Series

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

I do not have too much sympathy for the Historics as while everything was seemingly going well they have been complicit in riding on the V 8 coattails and have had a relatively free ride-- all that time not giving a damn about the damage they were causing to other catergories on the basis " we are all right".

Can we not refer to the Biante series cars as "the Historics" so that the uninitiated out there don't get confused with the many, many 5th Category Group N cars regularly competing at Historic rounds.......please?

[Sultan]

Originally Posted by alfacors

I hear that there will be an MX5 race on the program now - with approximately 24-25 entries. Well done to the organisers at QR. WHy have 30+ Historics when you can have a smaller field of cars which 99% of the spectators won't have any interest in?

Yes, MX5's have been invited to take their place, after 24hrs tere are 21 confirmed (not bad for a day's notice!) there's still quite a few to confim. There's alot more to this story between the Biante guys & Tetley/QR.

[Aquarius]

well fill us in

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

Can we not refer to the Biante series cars as "the Historics" so that the uninitiated out there don't get confused with the many, many 5th Category Group N cars regularly competing at Historic rounds.......please?

As one of the uninitiated GTB, please clarify it for me !

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Actually no, I've done the last four Bathurst 1000 supports and the price is around $700 - $800. For all the other rounds of the Biante series, it's around $300 - $400. Hence, the sheer reluctance to pay $920 to race at the Paperclip.

John, given the level of misinformation on this subject, please qualify any other information your source gives you - perhaps totally unreliable is appropriate.

[Crash Test]

Interesting that the original entry fee for the Grp Ns was apparently $920, but the MX5s are paying $400. Hrmm..

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by cavvy

As one of the uninitiated GTB, please clarify it for me !

You yankin my chain Cavvy??

There are regular Group N (a to c) meetings all over the country....the Biante Series are part of the V8 Supercar rounds and a few other things maybe like the Muscle Car Masters.

So...HSRCA in NSW, HRCC in QLD, VHRR (Sandown)/Mini Car Club Philip Island Classic Austin 7 Club Winton in VIC all run meetings throughout the year (excuse me for not mentioning the rest...but ya get the idea)

[pete55]

Looks like the Biante cars are to be replaced with GTP and Production car race of 200k on Saturday night.

[MPA]

275....

Do the cars running in the Biante series run to the same regs as the Group Na Nb Nc cars?

Are the Biante cars a bit more liberal with the regs? Do tell. I thought the Biante Brigade were the same, just with bugets to do bigger events.



Pete55... a 200k race for Biante/groupN cars would have tested most of them. The paperclip would need larger sand traps to park them all. Otherwise the Saftey Car would be the only car to do the full race distance.

Some of the drivers were first registered before their cars were made and would find a 200k race fun but challenging.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

You yankin my chain Cavvy??

There are regular Group N (a to c) meetings all over the country....the Biante Series are part of the V8 Supercar rounds and a few other things maybe like the Muscle Car Masters.

So...HSRCA in NSW, HRCC in QLD, VHRR (Sandown)/Mini Car Club Philip Island Classic Austin 7 Club Winton in VIC all run meetings throughout the year (excuse me for not mentioning the rest...but ya get the idea)

Apologies GTB, I read your comments as a criticism of the cars, legality etc - keep quiet about the historics meetings - it wont be as easy to move about.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by MPA

275....

Do the cars running in the Biante series run to the same regs as the Group Na Nb Nc cars?

Are the Biante cars a bit more liberal with the regs? Do tell. I thought the Biante Brigade were the same, just with bugets to do bigger events.

Biante cars are generally Group Nc which are representative of what was raced in the period....Nc don't have to prove that a particular car raced in the period in that form (unlike Na and Nb which came from a less modified era and therefore fewer mods are allowed).

From the CAMS website:
Group Nc
Group Nc is for touring cars of a make and model which competed in Australia between 1st January 1965 and 31st December 1972 in either the Australian Touring Car Championship or in races specifically for the 3rd Category Group C Improved Touring Cars.

Once again, the visual aspects of cars in this group must, above all, be compatible with the period.

The modifications that can be made to these vehicles are specified in detail in the Group N regulations in the CAMS Manual of Motor Sport.
UNQUOTE

Modifications, I think are more liberal for Nc and there is the impression in some quarters that its getting out of hand.

CAMS brought out a few extra rules a while back to tighten up Nc (my interpretation) and maybe control sky-rocketing costs. The Biante series has a mix of runners, the big boys tend to spend big bucks on their cars and go all over the country to follow the V8 Supercar rounds, whilst the tiddlers (like Patto, sorry Dave!) have to stick to a self imposed budget like most other racers and only attend the meetings they can afford.

Please don't get me wrong on this...I the Biante series AND the other Historic meetings held around the country....just think the differences need to be highlighted.

I've said enough I think

[MPA]

275...That sounds like a "Yes" to me. The Biante cars are group N. The cars are the same only the bugets are bigger. It was starting to sound like the Biante group were "Group N plus invited car with popular appeal and suspect mods"

Cheers.

[Onlooker]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

.The Australian GT whatever are asking $1650 plus the series registration and combined with the normal price gouging with tyre rebates adds up to the best part of $3500 to the promoters (that is each car)for the pleasure of supporting the V8's in Qld. Even better when it is 3 weeks away and MIGHT be part of the championship.And who is up to there ears in all this- one guess- Cams
.

Was that for a "full field" or just 15 cars

[johnny yuma]

Originally Posted by cavvy

John, given the level of misinformation on this subject, please qualify any other information your source gives you - perhaps totally unreliable is appropriate.

How unkind sir-but I will be quizzing my source,who has competed several times at Bathurst at the blunt end of Group N, but felt the price had grown too great.Even the ironically-named "international"motor festival at Easter Bathurst 2006 wanted $700.
The Clipsal support was $800 according to Biante website--but 3 short races over 4 days is expensive in other ways for competitor and spectator alike.Winton was cheaper-Mike Ronke maybe runs a tighter ship,or maybe V8SCA were desperate for Winton to succeed after stuffing up Shanghai.
I concede David Patterson has the right info of course,but the prices seem to be heading north at an unsustainable rate.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by peckstar

thats not what i said pete, i said without v8 supercars there would not be A QR, in other words, there would have been no need to build it in the first place.

If the manager cannot make money from a v8 race, he is not going to make money from bookings. I reckon he just didnt want the historics there, solution make them pay. more money in his pocket

Peckstar: you are aware that the present owners did not build the circuit?

While the original owners of Queensland Raceway envisioned their track to be a long term replacement for Lakeside, what the original owners had planned is irrelevant to the intentions of the present owners.

[Sultan]

They're generating plenty of extra funds through drifts & AASA meets..

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by MPA

275... It was starting to sound like the Biante group were "Group N plus invited car with popular appeal and suspect mods"

Cheers.

Your words, not mine, but you may not be too far from the truth

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

Your words, not mine, but you may not be too far from the truth

hence my interpretation - reading between the lines GTB, you are suggesting ...

[DAVID PATERSON]

Officially, the Biante cars run to the same regulations as all other Group N cars, the only exception being the Biante sign on the windscreen.

[johnny yuma]

Nc era saw 'creative' modifications to improved production cars,as sports sedans became more and more popular and their ranks were swelled by radically modified imp prod cars,while series production rose in popularity on the strength of Sandown and Bathurst.If you have a crossover car like Pete Goeghegan's second mustang,which had flared guards,fuel injection and a front air dam disguised as a brake cooling duct then you can run it as was--but nobody else can.Apart from that,XU1 Toranas for example mostly ran in Series Prod. in the early seventies but over the years people have learnt to spin them faster,get more power,use Volvo brakes etc. All legal but fairly irrelevant in 1972.

Would Bob Jane's 427 Camaro be legal in Nc in 2006 ????

[St00ge]

Remember there was Production car racing and Improved production cars back in the day The 427 Comaro and the superfalcon etc were all improved production.

And what NC rules and regs are now are a middle ground I belive between the two. So Imp production cars are a little too wild now, eg Fuel injection on the super falcon etc.

[auzziemonza]

Just got told that the Biante cars arnt going to be at the Muscle Cars at Easten Creek either.

Whats going on?

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by auzziemonza

Just got told that the Biante cars arnt going to be at the Muscle Cars at Easten Creek either.

Whats going on?

It looks likely that the Muscle Car Masters will not be a round of the Biante series, but there will defintely be at least 80 Group N Historic Touring Cars racing at the Muscle Car Masters.

[Sultan]

Originally Posted by auzziemonza

Just got told that the Biante cars arnt going to be at the Muscle Cars at Easten Creek either.

Whats going on?

Ya Whaaat??????? That's weird Hmmm, muscle car masters - shouldn't that include muscle cars???

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by Sultan

Hmmm, muscle car masters - shouldn't that include muscle cars???

It does Nick, see above.