GTE/GTLM 2016 discussion

[AkioAsakura95]

Originally Posted by rich07

Yeah it isn't strictly to ACO rules so there goes that idea. What a shame we never saw the Marc VDS Z4 at Le Mans this year.

OK, I admit that Marc VDS Z4 never saw at Le Mans because the racing team has been closed. Secondly, BMW Z4 GTE has been replaced by BMW M6 GTLM , Third, the engine of BMW Z4 GTE is not the road going version. Fourth, Z4 GTE is not so competitive yet.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I'm a bit confused by some of the criticism of Ford. Yes, they've not exactly been backwards in coming forwards with their aims this year, but a lot can change in a season - and Le Mans is 6 months away.

Despite the fact that Ford are telling us they're in it to win it from the start, I think at Daytona, the only thing they had to prove was pace - and they did that. A solid run into the night or past sunrise would be little more than a fluke at this stage. It's a young programme.

We're in for a right hoot in GTE/GTLM this season, aren't we?

After the first few hours I was pretty disappointed with the Ford effort. But as the race went on and they kept circulating my disappointment faded. I didn't expect them to win, and the way they kept plugging away after the early issues really impressed me.

I think they will be competitive by mid-season, and they can be proud of the effort they put in at Daytona.

I'm pretty interested to see if the WEC tracks suite them differently to the IMSA tracks. Different competition in each series will make it interesting as well.

[joeb]

On another topic. In one of the pre-race articles on Racer Wayne Taylor mentioned that even if his sons get incorporated more fully into the GM fold he will still field a prototype team in IMSA with other drivers.

So could this have been a hint that GM is considering replacing some of their IMSA drivers at Corvette or are they thinking expansion to WEC?

[J Jay]

The former I would assume. There's still little reason for GM to go to the WEC when their needs are served well by "just" having P&M at Le Mans.

Jordan is a brilliant driver, at least as good as the Corvette regulars and much younger to boot. I can see why GM would want to get him full time at least; as for Ricky, I'll admit to not knowing as much but if he keeps improving he could be on GM's radar as well.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by AkioAsakura95

I hoped BMW M6 GTLM will race at Le Mans as well they participate full season of World Endurance Championship (if can) as one of the BMW factory team has granted automatic invitations despite Marc VDS has close the racing team company.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans)





And the lace race of Le Mans for BMW is 2011 as ILMC (Intercontinental Le Mans Cup)



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_I...al_Le_Mans_Cup

Yes VDS received a auto invite but that means with ACO recognised GTE cars only, GTLM M6 does not apply, don't know the technical reason it doesnt

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by joeb

On another topic. In one of the pre-race articles on Racer Wayne Taylor mentioned that even if his sons get incorporated more fully into the GM fold he will still field a prototype team in IMSA with other drivers.

So could this have been a hint that GM is considering replacing some of their IMSA drivers at Corvette or are they thinking expansion to WEC?

Wayne could have both - he was heavily involved with the previous Cadillac prototype campaign so I'll expect him to continue to be one of GM's torchbearers next year and beyond.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by J Jay

The former I would assume. There's still little reason for GM to go to the WEC when their needs are served well by "just" having P&M at Le Mans.

Jordan is a brilliant driver, at least as good as the Corvette regulars and much younger to boot. I can see why GM would want to get him full time at least; as for Ricky, I'll admit to not knowing as much but if he keeps improving he could be on GM's radar as well.

I'd rate Ricky just as good as Jordan when he's "on", but he doesn't seem to be "on" quite as often as Jordan is. I don't know them personally or something so I could be very wrong, but the feeling I've gotten from watching since Ricky first started in the DP was that he's a bit more "fragile" in terms of confidence and such.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by rich07

We'll see the GT3 car but I doubt we'll see the GTLM car outside of IMSA.

You won't.

M6's are for IMSA only with national homologation.

[chernaudi]

Only way to see the GTLM M6s outside of IMSA is if the ACO approve homolgation. And even with as waiver happy/BOP happy as the ACO have been known to be with others at LM and the WEC, they've always had a dim view of BMW and the extent that they've had to use waivers and BOP to get their sports sedans (M3 and M6) and small sportscars (Z4) competitive with big bore sportscars and supercars.

[Starfish Primer]

Wasn´t the same case for the Z4 and finally we found it in the ELMS?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

Wasn´t the same case for the Z4 and finally we found it in the ELMS?

The M3 also ran at Le Mans after a couple years. So it can happen if they want it to happen. I'm sure there would be negotiations involving potential P1 programs, acceptance of M6, and so on.....

[AkioAsakura95]

Originally Posted by joeb

The M3 also ran at Le Mans after a couple years. So it can happen if they want it to happen. I'm sure there would be negotiations involving potential P1 programs, acceptance of M6, and so on.....

@joeb

I hoped so. And I hoped BMW M6 GTLM will enter Le Mans this year as well as WEC (IF CAN) with the experience of Daytona 24 hour endurance.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

I don't see how from your 2nd statement the third would follow. Mind elaborating?

Sure, we have a governing body which sets aside human manpower to find patterns in the data collected that would suggest that given entrant is not running full song.

But how the existence of these persons from the governing body imply the impossibility to game and or simply betray that governing body is beyond me. It's like saying there'd be no tax evasion. After all the measurement of IMSA (i.e., their sensors) takes place in an environment controlled and run by the teams. If you know what (and how) the sensor is measuring, you can always "game" it. All you need to achieve is just a tiny measurement error whose effect you as a team control. If you end up being bopped and you have somewhere a means of extracting another 1% of performance at will, you're all set...

Dieselgate IMHO shows what creative engineers can do to their controlling/governing body. And I believe there is more creativity among the engineers racing each other.

Sorry. I forgot about this.

So, at the Ladoux test all GTE/GTLM cars were present in some form. The baseline for BoP is set there, and the times are juged against what the simulations should say the lap-time should be. Tha't's based upon expected horsepower, weight, aero(drag and DF) and previous BoP tables....

It would be a major disadvantage to try and game the BoP test at Ladoux. All of the cars are expected to be within a certain percentage. If you show up, and are within that via sensor-recalibration, or cheating the downlink telemetry, then when you are drastically outside that percentage, you are going to get nailed to the wall.

Now, specifically at the Roar, the IMSA official will have the expected BoP in hand as a baseline, and they will analyze the telemetry to ensure that they are within that expected percentage. If they show up outside of that, they will figure out why. Should it occur, they will get penalized, and stricter BoP applied based upon the difference.

So, say that a car ends up being five seconds per lap faster(I know it's not realistic, but this is as an example.) The next BoP adjustment would see an increase in base weight, probably 20-30kg+, a reduction in restrictor by probably 0.5-1mm, and a reduction in fuel capacity, or a smaller fuel flow restriction on the fuel rig.

The TL;DR.... it's much harder to game the BoP than what it seems.

Now.

Having said that. The C7R is capable of running much faster than what is on paper.... They tend to try and get a bigger lead in the points and expect BoP to bring them back. The way they won at the 24 though? They will get slugged before Sebring.

[MaskedRacer]

Very impressed that the vast majority of the GTLM grid will be at Le Mans. The exception: RLL BMW. Feeling left out now guys eh? I wonder what they will be up to in June. All I know is that RLL BMW does have some work to do. In the last 2 hours at Daytona they got their a$$es handed to them.

[merlot brougham]

Originally Posted by AkioAsakura95

@joeb

I hoped so. And I hoped BMW M6 GTLM will enter Le Mans this year as well as WEC (IF CAN) with the experience of Daytona 24 hour endurance.

You'd better not hold your breath. BMW has some very rigid marketing strategies regarding which series and what car will go in it. It makes a ton of sense to enthusiasts that the M3/M4 be the GTE/LM car of choice but that has been chosen as the touring car, so the M6 becomes the GT car. Also, they don't want to do WEC unless it is top level. And they don't think the current LMP1 regs match their goals, so no WEC until the regs match what they want for alternative powerplants. Remember that BMW was one of the biggest proponents of GT rules unification. They basically got their goal in IMSA.

[chernaudi]

Also, like the Z4 GTE, the M6 GTLM isn't exactly ACO legal. BMW had to make a modified version of the M3 GTR to suit ACO rules that was a bit different from the IMSA version.

Granted, the Z4 GTE and M6 GTLM not being fully ACO legal doesn't matter too much for BMW Motorsport, since they have the GT3 cars in Europe and elsewhere, and they're satisfied with the GTLM cars running in IMSA. But that also means no customer efforts in the WEC, partly due to rules compliance issues, and partly because BMW Motorsport doesn't particularly care about a non-NA GTLM program.

[Dyson Mazda]

Is CORE running the Porsche GTE effort at Le Mans this year?

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Is CORE running the Porsche GTE effort at Le Mans this year?

Tony DiZinno said it's a Porsche works effort, not the NA CORE cars.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by BullMan

Tony DiZinno said it's a Porsche works effort, not the NA CORE cars.

Might they be the Core cars run by the factory (aka Manthey) for LM only?

[tux]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Might they be the Core cars run by the factory (aka Manthey) for LM only?

Probably the WEC cars from 2015 with some updates run by Manthey and some of the Core guys.

[Deleted]

On RLM, there's a show titled "The Great GT Debate" coming in tonight. What's that gonna be about then? Going by the title it's not all gonna be roses on the current situation (?)

[Coach Ep]

GTE vs. GT3
Life after Ford
BoP domination
Pro-Am

Nothing but sunshine!

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Chiana

On RLM, there's a show titled "The Great GT Debate" coming in tonight. What's that gonna be about then? Going by the title it's not all gonna be roses on the current situation (?)

I think I came out of that with more questions than answers. Worth listening to again on the podcast.

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Mike E

I think I came out of that with more questions than answers. Worth listening to again on the podcast.

Yeah that didnt really give any answers at all, did it.

[Coach Ep]

Was my topics prediction spot on?