[Rumours] LotusF1 in trouble

[GT6]

Originally Posted by Bononi

I didn't read anywhere they are in financial trouble...

If you are owned by a venture capital firm and are lossing sponsership I think that is a pretty good indication of financial trouble.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by GT6

If you are owned by a venture capital firm and are lossing sponsership I think that is a pretty good indication of financial trouble.

Yet, nothing has been in the news about it, but I can take your word for that...

[wolfhound]

A little nugget of information has come out about the James Allison situation.
In December last year Niki Lauda was in the process of recruiting Allison for Mercedes when Toto Wolff arrived and brought a halt to the move.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22433258

I wonder is that why Allison left Enstone but appears not to have a deal done for his future employment.

Another bit of information that comes out of the same interview was that Wolff was in the process of recruiting Paddy Lowe for Williams before he left Williams. Considering the loss of staff at the top of Williams Lowe could have been a good fit for them.

[Canada ALMS fan]

More info from a very reliable source:
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/...lison-mystery/

[GT6]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Yet, nothing has been in the news about it, but I can take your word for that...

Today's telegraph had a good feature Lotus F1 lost £56m last year the biggest loss in motorsport history, big drop in income and big rises in expenses, they can not continue in the current fashion and Genii are the sort of people who will cut and run very quickly.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by GT6

If you are owned by a venture capital firm and are lossing sponsership I think that is a pretty good indication of financial trouble.

I would have thought if you were owned by venture capitalists, sponsors would be superfluous, apart from those making components such as spark plugs.

[chillibowl]

without seeing their financials its hard to make any assumptions as to what the reported loss represents. for all we know the loss is a calculated one simply to avoid taxes and or a loss to be applied against other streams of Genii's income....rather creative accounting and book losses.

on the other hand its equally possible that huge losses which can be applied to future tax liabilities makes this team an even more attractive asset to the right investors.

problem is there is a general lack of ability on the part of the sports media to actually report on financial matters. in f1 its usually Christian Sylt doing the reporting and while he seems to have the numbers he never goes into the details for reasons that i can only speculate on.

i should probably buy his magazine if i want those answers though!

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

problem is there is a general lack of ability on the part of the sports media to actually report on financial matters. in f1 its usually Christian Sylt doing the reporting and while he seems to have the numbers he never goes into the details for reasons that i can only speculate on.

i should probably buy his magazine if i want those answers though!

He regularly has articles on Pitpass including the one on Lotus, as well as newspaper articles.

http://www.pitpass.com/49161-Lotus-b...-in-F1-history

[Peralta]

Originally Posted by Bononi

I didn't read anywhere they are in financial trouble...

Last month I stated that Lotus were in financial trouble but someone didn't take me seriously and closed my thread but guess what. The Telegraph over the weekend reported that Lotus reported the biggest loss in motor sport history to a tune of 86 million dollars. It gets worse....

[F1Pete]

Will they be able to afford to fix Grosjean's car?

[GT6]

Originally Posted by Peralta

Last month I stated that Lotus were in financial trouble but someone didn't take me seriously and closed my thread but guess what. The Telegraph over the weekend reported that Lotus reported the biggest loss in motor sport history to a tune of 86 million dollars. It gets worse....

Yes it does appear that some people on the forum prefer to bury there head in the sand and hate any bad news, but F1 teams need to change to survive and stupid talk about Tax loses being a sales are funny but sad, Genii are not there for the love of it and will be trying to get out,
Other problems exist in all motor sport but financial problems are the most pressing and will need to be treated with respect and not ignored.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

He regularly has articles on Pitpass including the one on Lotus, as well as newspaper articles.

http://www.pitpass.com/49161-Lotus-b...-in-F1-history

So.. the financial accounts apparently display that the legal entity lost a shedload of Euros/Pounds/Dollars...

The question must lie in the audit report attached to the accounts.. presuming of course that the accounts are externally audited.. with a question about whether the legal entity can operate as a going concern on its own, or whether it exists at the behest of its owners' guarantees...

Either way, losing money is never a great thing... and cant be good for business for Lotus trying to drum up a title sponsor when the financial press are talking the latest result up as a cataclysmic failure...

Without a title sponsor, the legal entity is more than likely to perform similarly next reporting season... unless of course a cost cutting process is implemented...

... and with new-for-2014 cars required, its hard to see that happening...

[GT6]

Looking at the car at the weekend there were no signs of new sponsor logo's and as that is the only real income so what are they doing to try and keep the team solvent, F1 is the most expensive of sports and suppliers must be getting very nervous that if the situation continues they might get paid

[wolfhound]

Rumour has it that they had a major sponsor lined up at the start of the season but this fell through very late. Also the Lotus car company was originally to get involved financially but we all know what happened there.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Peralta

Last month I stated that Lotus were in financial trouble but someone didn't take me seriously and closed my thread but guess what. The Telegraph over the weekend reported that Lotus reported the biggest loss in motor sport history to a tune of 86 million dollars. It gets worse....

Oh now you quote the source. After someone else... That's good, at least you're learning.

[321Go]

It's not a rumour. It was pretty much out in the open since early December 2012 that Honeywell was going to be title sponsor for the team.

Here is a article from 16/01/2013.
http://www.pitpass.com/48220-Boullie...et-been-signed

Here is a article from 20/03/2013.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns25021.html

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by 321Go

It's not a rumour. It was pretty much out in the open since early December 2012 that Honeywell was going to be title sponsor for the team.

Here is a article from 16/01/2013.
http://www.pitpass.com/48220-Boullie...et-been-signed

Here is a article from 20/03/2013.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns25021.html

Did they conduct some kind of sponsors due diligence on the team?!!

[wolfhound]

Lotus appears to be spending beyond its means, nothing new there as Joe Sawards history of GP racing shows. As the spending goes it will eventually collapse, leaving a gap until the cycle restarts again.
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/...agement-in-f1/

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Lotus appears to be spending beyond its means, nothing new there as Joe Sawards history of GP racing shows. As the spending goes it will eventually collapse, leaving a gap until the cycle restarts again.
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/...agement-in-f1/

There won't be any collapse, it's just Mr. Saward using a bit of history and analysis so he can end his entry saying

Originally Posted by Mr. Saward

...Red Bull must go

And he strikes again in his later entry about Pirelli not racing new tyres in Canada

Originally Posted by Mr. Saward

...rather than being pressured into making changes to please the whingeing teams.

He just likes to pick on RBR

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

He just likes to pick on RBR

It wouldn't only RBR he picks on but there is always at least one team not agreeing with others meaning it is difficult to make changes.

[jsTrecu]

Every big team always try to gain an advantage making it impossible to reach an agreement, and the departure of RBR would not change that in my opinion.
The worse part of the recession just passed, Ferrari won't go away, ML neither, Mercedes just now starts doing things well and have increased their staff and RBR seems commited. Plus Honda is coming back, and rumors of others manufacturers doing the same are increasing.
I'm not sure of a collapse happening anytime soon even with midfield teams having a hard time, they'll find a way.

[Bononi]

Now would you believe RBR would leave F1 ?????

[321Go]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Now would you believe RBR would leave F1 ?????

Well maybe not RBR, but their Chief Technical Officer. Could this spell the end of RBR's reign in F1???

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Now would you believe RBR would leave F1 ?????

Yes, of course, when their marketing objectives are met.

Nothing lasts forever, all fizzy drink manufacturers change their marketing mix eventually. Formula one is just one channel for them, that's all.

[bella]

really? i thought red bull racing was always a pet project for the boss that he spent his pocket money sponsorship account on because he likes motorsport. when (if?) he loses the love for motorsport, the decision will fall into the hands of the marketing people.