New Eastern Creek layout... $93million!!!

[mac]

The full circuit of that new layout is truly woeful. Far too tight and slow - and not in a good way. While, for example, the Hungaroring is tight and twisty, there is a great mix of different and challenging corners that test the drivers.

That is an atrocious track layout designed by someone that hasn't the foggiest.

I really hope Eastern Creek never gets the F1 grand prix with a circuit like that - it would be an international embarrassment.

[Mr_Cool]

Originally Posted by mac

The full circuit of that new layout is truly woeful. Far too tight and slow - and not in a good way. While, for example, the Hungaroring is tight and twisty, there is a great mix of different and challenging corners that test the drivers.

That is an atrocious track layout designed by someone that hasn't the foggiest.

I really hope Eastern Creek never gets the F1 grand prix with a circuit like that - it would be an international embarrassment.

God have a whinge, at least they are trying to do something you mongoose, do us a favour and use paintshop and make a circuit.

P.S. Are you victorian?

[mac]

Originally Posted by Mr_Cool

God have a whinge, at least they are trying to do something you mongoose, do us a favour and use paintshop and make a circuit.

P.S. Are you victorian?

No, I'm not at all!

So, you're happy for the NSW government and the ARDC to throw $93 million at the place, and to end up with a worse layout than we currently have?

It's a terrible layout - someone has to say it. I'd love to have a crack at the layout, but it would be a catastrophic waste of time.

[alfacors]

I'm still trying to work out how you can determine how good a circuit is from looking at an aerial impression of it.... and I never realised how easy it was to circuit design. All it takes is MS Paint it seems....

[mac]

Originally Posted by alfacors

I'm still trying to work out how you can determine how good a circuit is from looking at an aerial impression of it.... and I never realised how easy it was to circuit design...

Alright... what's wrong with it?

Firstly, it is far too complicated than it needs to be, and secondly, there is absolutely nothing interesting about it.

On the full circuit...

- Turns 1, 2 & 3 are all fine. Turn one should be a good passing spot.
- Turns 5 & 6 are fine.
- BUT, the section from turn 7 to 14 is just terrible - turn 7 & 8 offers no passing, 9, 10, 11 & 12 are just slow clumsy corner after slow clumsy corner with no passing and no excitement, 13 & 14 are also completely pointless.
- And why slow the final corner down so much!? If you don't want it to be so fast, shorten the straight before it - the one interesting thing about the circuit has been completely removed.

I would...
- Shorten the straight between three and four to create more room for the infield and turn 4 & 5 into an esses section - I'd also open up 5 a bit.
- Open up Turn 5 a bit.
- I'd make Turn 6 tighter, and an opening radius turn. This would give a better opportunity for passing at the end of the next straight.
- Turn 7 should be further back up the straight and should only be a very slight kink.
- Turn 8 should be a hairpin, but the road should go to the end of the run-off to create some passing.
- Then you are into the infield - whatever you do, it couldn't be worse than what they've done. I would have a bit of a straight after the hairpin, then a fast left before corporate hill to make Turn 9.
- Turn 10 would be a medium speed double apex left where the old Turn 9 is.
- I'd stick a fast right-left flick at the back of the skidpan for Turns 11 & 12, then a slow right-hander at Turn 13 onto a shorter straight going into the final (unchanged) Turn 14.

There are probably better layouts than what I just came up with, but surely this country can come up with something better than that!

[alfacors]

Again, it's easy to say, but has anyone here got any sort of insight as to the engineering and building of their proposed designs?

As for coming up with better designs ourselves, it's yet to be proven with any Aussie circuit designed in recent memory. I'm not saying I have the answers, but with everyone saying it's so easy, I'm surprised they don't have circuit design companies themselves making brilliant design circuits all over the world....

[dirtymacca]

What is the $ breakdown on where the spend is...for $93 mill (not including the cost of the land) it would want to be good!!!

What was the cost of Sepang in Malaysia? (OK, sure labour costs are cheaper)...plus 350K for the feasibility...ha ha ha..........a disaster waiting to happen!

[dirtymacca]

What is the $ breakdown on where the spend is...for $93 mill (not including the cost of the land) it would want to be good!!!

What was the cost of Sepang in Malaysia? (OK, sure labour costs are cheaper)...plus 350K for the feasibility...ha ha ha..........a disaster waiting to happen!

[FPV GTHO]

IMO its still unsuitable if they plan on attracting something like F1. The infield needs to be uncluttered and the straight lengthened for that. Both the current layout and proposed layout would be as boring as the Hungaroring.

Maybe something F3/GP2/A1 level it'd be fine for though.

What was the cost of Sepang in Malaysia?

Sepang, Bahrain, Shanghai etc have all been $300m+ projects, hence Moffat's claims of this project costing 3x as much on virgin land. The update to Fuji for example was only about $100m

[Simon S]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Sepang, Bahrain, Shanghai etc have all been $300m+ projects, hence Moffat's claims of this project costing 3x as much on virgin land. The update to Fuji for example was only about $100m

Your jokeing?

Bahrain costs a shed load more than that...

[FPV GTHO]

I did say 300 million PLUS

The figures vary between 300-500 million for Tilke-dromes depending on the attention to detail etc. Shanghai for example was swampland that had to have foundations put in before anything could be done.

[DAVID PATERSON]

The update to Fuji is just awful! They totally ruined a great track!

Sadly, it is nearly impossible to create an exciting driver's track whilst complying with the current FIA circuit design rules. Reducing radius corners, blind corners, blind crests and corners over crests are all banned.

There are also minimum distance to barriers and minimum sizes for gravel traps, depending on the radius of a corner and the approach speed. These make it difficult to put spectators anywhere near a fast corner.

[mac]

Originally Posted by alfacors

Again, it's easy to say, but has anyone here got any sort of insight as to the engineering and building of their proposed designs?

So you're suggesting that the reason the infield is so garbage is because of engineering requirements?

[DAVID PATERSON]

I don't understand why they want to spend a fortune making one of Australia's premier circuits, far less appealing............

[mac]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

The update to Fuji is just awful! They totally ruined a great track!

Sadly, it is nearly impossible to create an exciting driver's track whilst complying with the current FIA circuit design rules. Reducing radius corners, blind corners, blind crests and corners over crests are all banned.

Istanbul Park turned out alright, Sepang is pretty good, and Shanghai is alright - I even think Bahrain produces reasonable racing.

I don't think it's impossible - but what these people are proposing to do to Eastern Creek is plain ridiculous.

[Crash Test]

Hrmmm... the problem is that the Eastern Creek want to be able to host F1 etc, and for that the track must meet those FIA track regulations on length and run off.

Having seen the caluations and simulations used to calculate run off and wall placement, you've got to take in topography and available space as well, it's fairly staggering. Hermann Tilke doesn't just sit down and use paint

It's all good to say that the new 5km long EC design should be 2x1km straights with 3km of fast sweepers, but there obviously there isn't the room within the confines of the property to accommodate that. Have a look at the run off required at turns one and two at QR for a track to be compliant...

[alfacors]

Originally Posted by mac

So you're suggesting that the reason the infield is so garbage is because of engineering requirements?

No, I am saying there's a shedload more to circuit design than MS Paint.... not that hard a concept to grasp.

[blaarg]

Originally Posted by alfacors

No, I am saying there's a shedload more to circuit design than MS Paint.... not that hard a concept to grasp.

Garbage...

There's nothing to circuit design... If anyone tells you otherwise... they're talking garbage.

[MPA]

Considering there’s no compulsory acquisition of land, traffic management and diversion, public access issues etc, 93 million seems a bit steep for an extra 1 Kay of single lane highway.

For that kind of cash you could buy a six-lane dual carriageway to freeway standard complete with all the trimmings. Toll booths an optional extra.

Someone is making a killing here.

[dirtymacca]

"Considering there’s no compulsory acquisition of land, traffic management and diversion, public access issues etc, 93 million seems a bit steep for an extra 1 Kay of single lane highway.

For that kind of cash you could buy a six-lane dual carriageway to freeway standard complete with all the trimmings. Toll booths an optional extra.

Someone is making a killing here."

My point EXACTLY MPA!!!

[dirtymacca]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I did say 300 million PLUS

The figures vary between 300-500 million for Tilke-dromes depending on the attention to detail etc. Shanghai for example was swampland that had to have foundations put in before anything could be done.

I just found this for the cost of Sepang.....no where near the 300 MILLION.....

This is a quote from www.F1-Malaysia.com


"The Sepang Circuit is the most spectacular race circuit in the Eastern hemisphere if not the world. Built at a cost of US$120 million, the Sepang Circuit was completed in November 1998. With the first racing event taking place on the 12th December 98. The circuit actually consist of one circuit within another. The main race track being 5.542km & the other option ciruit being 2.805km. Some of the most spectacular features of the circuit are the smooth & sweeping chicane capable of negotiating at speeds in excess of 200kph. The fastest part of the circuit is the straight between T15 and T1 or usually known as the home straight. Capable clocking speed here would be scorching at about 350kph. Ear plugs would be advisable if spectating from these parts of the grandstand. The pits consist of many spectacular features such as built-in team office & conference area with the latest hi-tech gizmo."

(# Million for "renovations"!!!!!!!

[Malfunction Junction]

As I've suggested above, perhaps the $93Mil includes buying and burying the tip down the road, which seems to be the biggest bugbear of those bagging the place.

The Black Wiggle could then plant a foretht on it tho he can thcweam at anbody who careth what he thinkth while being gween with it.

I still like my own layout, and I can't even draw it on paint!

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by Malfunction Junction

foretht on it tho he can thcweam at anbody who careth what he thinkth while being gween with it.

I thought Proracer had written that until I reread it. Classic.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Thath cwool.

[xr8]

I dont know why everbody has this fascination with the tip next to EC!
When I was a kid all the northern side of the railway fron seven hills station to blacktown station was rubbish tip.
First section they buried they built blacktown swiming pool on it. So all you people that have layed down on the grass sunbaking at blacktown have sunbaked on top of a tip!
Next they built football ovals, basket ball fields and parks , even a duck pond.
The tip @ walgrove rd is nearing its use by date and will eventually be filled over and opened up to other activities.