2012 Dakar Rally

[skells22]

there was no stage yesterday due to weather

[FIRE]

Yesterday was stage 5, today stage 6 but is canceled due to weather:

Due to the bad weather continuing over the Andes Mountain Range (rain and snow), the Chilean authorities were forced to close, for the night, the border at the Paso de San Francisco pass, situated at 4700 m.

For the 7th time, the Dakar is about to cross over the Andes, and because of very unfavourable conditions, added to the fact that the course has been hit by rain and snow, in order to guarantee the security of the competitors and those following the rally, the organisers have decided to organise a convoy for all vehicles tomorrow. The itinerary has been changed after the border (follow the main road on the right which goes to Diego de Almagro).

[Ferrari333SP]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Without major improvements Gordon or his teammates will never win the Dakar.
It's a fast car but way to much technical problems.



It's Tim Coronel, not Tom.


Todays stage is canceled due to snow.

I wouldn't say it needs "major" improvements; it'd definately the fasted vehicle in the field, but it's just the small stuff that needs working on. Besides changing tires, there was a problem with a spare tire hitting a coolent line, a 2nd alternator had to be used on Gordon's truck, and Nasser's Hummer got stuck once. Not having the 2nd support truck there yet, with it's new Toyo Tires and replacement parts, hasn't allowed Nasser and RG to push as hard as they want, but the truck is finally on it's way to them now, so the next stage they do should be good for the team.

A great place to stay up to date on pictures and Eurosport video recaps is http://www.planetrobby.com

[kober]

In other news Terranova was forced out of the rally because his co-driver, Grider, had had to get back to the US due to personal problems. According to Overdrive's Fortin the pair broke up after a fight

PS. I find it amusing that Overdrive's Directeur commercial is the co-driver of X-raid's Holowczyc.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

I wouldn't say it needs "major" improvements; it'd definately the fasted vehicle in the field, but it's just the small stuff that needs working on. Besides changing tires, there was a problem with a spare tire hitting a coolent line, a 2nd alternator had to be used on Gordon's truck, and Nasser's Hummer got stuck once. Not having the 2nd support truck there yet, with it's new Toyo Tires and replacement parts, hasn't allowed Nasser and RG to push as hard as they want, but the truck is finally on it's way to them now, so the next stage they do should be good for the team.

A great place to stay up to date on pictures and Eurosport video recaps is http://www.planetrobby.com

The mega stage win today says a lot more about Mr Al-Attiyah's fighting spirit, and how hard he has had to push the Hummer, than necessarily about the Hummer's outright pace compared to the competition.

He is clearly taking risks, when the ultimate goal is an outright win, a failure to finish because you are trying super hard isnt important.. apparently..

Is Hummer still a GM Brand?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The mega stage win today says a lot more about Mr Al-Attiyah's fighting spirit, and how hard he has had to push the Hummer, than necessarily about the Hummer's outright pace compared to the competition.

He is clearly taking risks, when the ultimate goal is an outright win, a failure to finish because you are trying super hard isnt important.. apparently..

Is Hummer still a GM Brand?

It's a defunct brand that made it's last vehicle almost 2 years ago.

[NaBUru38]

Wow, I thought the Chinese or an American military company had bought Hummer.

- o -

The Citroën project at the Dakar would get economic backing from Al-Attiyah's contacts in Qatar. The World Rally Championship programme would be taken by Peugeot (where they could field the new 208), and the Lions would leave the World Endurance Championship if they dislike the new fuel efficiency rules.

I wonder if Loeb is interested in running at the Dakar during the sports car off-season.

- o -

Orly Terranova's codriver was found with friends in Chile... but don't worry, scandals are overshadowed in Argentina and Uruguayan mainstream television by celebrity pieces of meat.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Wow, I thought the Chinese or an American military company had bought Hummer.

- o -

The Citroën project at the Dakar would get economic backing from Al-Attiyah's contacts in Qatar. The World Rally Championship programme would be taken by Peugeot (where they could field the new 208), and the Lions would leave the World Endurance Championship if they dislike the new fuel efficiency rules.

I wonder if Loeb is interested in running at the Dakar during the sports car off-season.

- o -

Orly Terranova's codriver was found with friends in Chile... but don't worry, scandals are overshadowed in Argentina and Uruguayan mainstream television by celebrity pieces of meat.

Hummer was originally the HMMWV or "Humvee" military 4x4 replacement for the Jeep back around 1984 and it was and is produced and designed by AM General. After some civilian interest, GM bought the rights to sell civilian models and develop other 4x4 models under the Hummer brand name.

The civilian brand run by GM is dead, but AM General still produces Humvee's for the US military.

Citroen was a big player at Dakar and the world rally raid title back in the 1990's, spending around $20 million a year which was big money back 20 years ago.

I can't see them going back that direction though.

[kober]

With 500 mm of suspension travel and those monster tires it's a small wonder that Gordon's buggy is faster on rough (and straight) sections.

[FIRE]

Double the horsepower of the Mini's, Nissan's and Mitsubushi's?

[kober]

If any, the power advantage of Hummer's 6.0 litre V8 is rather small.

In other news: Schlesser has just won Africa Eco Race (finish in Dakar). It's a shame that he's not around in the Dakar Rally any more - it would be interesting to see how his buggy competes against Gordon's.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The civilian brand run by GM is dead, but AM General still produces Humvee's for the US military..

Oh, now I get it, thanks!

[GTRMagic]

Robby Gordon still thinks Mr Al-Attiyah can win! Here

[kober]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Robby Gordon still thinks Mr Al-Attiyah can win!

To win the rally he would need to have a flawless run, with all top three Minis getting into troubles. And how competitive, comparing to 4x4s, the buggy is on a soft sands of Chile is yet to be determined. At halfway point he's sixth, 43 minutes down on Peterhansel:

1. PETERHANSEL (FRA) / COTTRET (FRA)           MINI           -
2. HOLOWCZYC (POL) / FORTIN (BEL)              MINI           00:11:22
3. GORDON (USA) / CAMPBELL (USA)               HUMMER         00:13:09
4. ROMA (ESP) / PÉRIN (FRA)                    MINI           00:18:05
5. DE VILLIERS (ZAF) / VON ZITZEWITZ (DEU)     TOYOTA         00:34:07
6. AL-ATTIYAH (QAT) / CRUZ (ESP)               HUMMER         00:42:54

[FIRE]

So far I enjoy this years rally.

[kober]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Double the horsepower of the Mini's, Nissan's and Mitsubushi's?

According to Holowczyc, the Hummer has 100-150 bhp advantage over Minis.

In other news, after today's retirement, Al-Attiyah said that he's goal is to return and win the rally next year - not with a Hummer though. If Citroen decides to return, he might be their no. 1 choice This season he'll drive a Citroen in WRC campaign (starting with Sweden next month).

I didn't think he'll have a chance, but Gordon might have a shot at winning the Dakar this year - especially if Peterhansel will receive a penalty for what he did during a river crossing today

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by kober

According to Holowczyc, the Hummer has 100-150 bhp advantage over Minis.

In other news, after today's retirement, Al-Attiyah said that he's goal is to return and win the rally next year - not with a Hummer though. If Citroen decides to return, he might be their no. 1 choice This season he'll drive a Citroen in WRC campaign (starting with Sweden next month).

I didn't think he'll have a chance, but Gordon might have a shot at winning the Dakar this year - especially if Peterhansel will receive a penalty for what he did during a river crossing today

Double the horsepower, and what looks like half the reliability

Mr Gordon has a genuine shot at winning, if he can extract the same pace his teammate could manage, without the same technical issues. It might also be good for the event's image in the US, to have a NASCAR 'star' win the thing...

Would Citroen put the resources behind developing a 'rally raid' chassis? I get that Qatari government is a major supporter of Mr Al-Attiyah, but Citroen hasnt previously demonstrated a desire to supply a customer program...

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by kober

According to Holowczyc, the Hummer has 100-150 bhp advantage over Minis.

In other news, after today's retirement, Al-Attiyah said that he's goal is to return and win the rally next year - not with a Hummer though. If Citroen decides to return, he might be their no. 1 choice This season he'll drive a Citroen in WRC campaign (starting with Sweden next month).

I didn't think he'll have a chance, but Gordon might have a shot at winning the Dakar this year - especially if Peterhansel will receive a penalty for what he did during a river crossing today

They really need to give Peterhansel a penalty for that. It was just ridiculous. He just smashed into the back of that rider.

[AndyS]

Didn't look good what Petterhansel did. I suspect he will get a penalty, they chucked one of the Kamaz truck drivers out of the event for something similar. Although I think he was slightly liberal with the truth when questioned about the matter at the end of the days competition.

[FIRE]

I don't think ASO will give a penalty. Both have FRA behind their name....

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by kober

According to Holowczyc, the Hummer has 100-150 bhp advantage over Minis.

It seems that Gordon has been cheating with the restrictor. He has been disqualified, but he can continue the race under appeal. Within two months the appeal will be judged by the FIA/FFSA.

[gwyllion]

Up until today Gordon was driving very patiently. I thought that he had a good chance at winning the rally. However, today Gordon returned to his old habit of overaggressively driving. He wanted to overtake Petterhansel on a narrow road, drove in a ditch and broke two tyres and some suspension parts. In the Eurosport interview he was complaining that Petterhansel ignored the sentinel button.

On another forum Mark Miller, former VW factory driver, made a nice comment about the sentinel system

I am as big a RG supporter as any but the story is that Robby is the worst offender over the years on not pulling over for sentinel. Sometimes you push that sentinel 50 times to get a guy to give you a break. And even then it doesn't always work. Robby is the only seeded driver to have been penalized for repeated offenses. My experience with Peter is he is the best sportsman out there. Not only that he has won this so many times that he loves the competition and is encouraging of the battle, He is the ONLY driver who has always pulled over for me after repeated sentinels. I have maybe 10+ encounters with him! Robby is the second best guy for me, but I think we always had a mutual respect and gave each other a little more then we would give the others.

[kober]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

It seems that Gordon has been cheating with the restrictor. He has been disqualified, but he can continue the race under appeal. Within two months the appeal will be judged by the FIA/FFSA.

Yeah, somehow their system of remote tire pressure adjustment* is connected to the air intake of the engine. Gordon's saying that they've been using it for the last five years. Cheating for that long without being caugth?

* 2WD T1s are allowed to have this system, contrary to 4WD T1s.

[kober]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

My experience with Peter is he is the best sportsman out there.

Did Miller say this after the infamous Tuesday's river crossing?

[gwyllion]

He claims that it is legal because it passed scrutineering. Yeah right.

Gordon is a NASCAR driver. I don't follow that discipline at all, but I have read that cheating with the restrictor plate has often happened in NASCAR.

In fact the whole story reminds me a bit of the illegal Toyota restrictor bypass system: http://homepage.virgin.net/shalco.com/tte_ban.htm