New rules thread (merged again)

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Hazard

Has anyone found anywhere that shows the actual laptimes from the second session? Webber I recall was fastest, with Fisichella 2nd. It's the best indicator (outside of those that set no laps) of who was at what pace this weekend

Unfortunately most of those times mean nothing too. The track was a bit greasy at the start (a light shower about 20 mins before the start), drying out as the session went on. Also most of the gaps from Q1 were so great very few people could achieve anything anyway. The crowd (not helped by hopeless on-track commentary) had absolutely no idea what was going on. The cries of "Wow, that was fast" after someone ended up 2 seconds faster, were somewhat amusing when that driver started 3 seconds ahead! Very few drivers had any reason to go flat out - the exception was probably the RB, Monyoya, Kimi bit in the middle. And on top of all that they had different fuel on board!

Between looking after tyres, especially the fear of a flat-spot, and conserving engines it doesn't lend itself to a great spectacle. I would have thought Montoya had a shot at catching Webber towards the end but McLaren decided to "conserve" the engine for Malaysia. It got very annoying hearing about having to look ahead to Malaysia all the time when we wanted to see a bit of action - that started on Friday.

[Redlake27]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the tyre rules, and the fact that most fastest laps came after 40 laps or so, show the tyre manufacturers have that under control.

The sheer lack of overtaking was startling, however. The only pass of note was Alonso getting past the 2-secs a lap slower JV, and that took about half an hour! I regret getting up in the middle of the night!

And frankly, I'm going to stop watching qualifying now. I have watched every Grand Prix since 1979, but I'm on the verge of finding something else to do on a Sunday. I can't take 19 of these! Despite the fact that Fisi is my favourite driver!

[Alfa75]

I guess it's really too early to pass a final verdict. This race was strange, extreme 1st sessions qualifying conditions, first race with new rules for all teams and the tyre manufacturers (didn't it seem like both Michelin and Bridgestone where well on the safe side for the compounds btw?), and a track where overtaking opportinities where sparse.

But from what I saw it didn't look promising at all.
Last year the most, or even only, exciting part of the races where
a) watching one of the top runners who had a bad qualifying fight their way up through the field
b) watch the slower cars fight among themselves in the midfield and down
c) watch the strategy game with pitstops

In this race all this was gone more or less, and still pretty much the only overtaking took place during the pitstops.
Since it seems that overtaking is still near impossible unless you are atleast 1 second per lap quicker, qualifying is now more important than ever.

[Dani Filth]

the cars to me looked to be able to race closer to each other .
which it nice .
i'm still to decide if the new rules suck

[dsg]

I don't mind the two races per engine rule however these engines should only be used for qualifying and the race. Maybe if teams could use a second engine for practice and do as many laps as they want the fans could see a bit more of the cars.

I’m also not sure the aero is achieving what the powers to be had in mind. It appears the cars have almost as much down force in clean air but lose out significantly in dirty air which makes passing harder than last year.

[Dutton]

I found the race very interesting, even if not a great deal actually happened per say. I certainly don't think it was dreadful by any means, for it was the first ofthe eyar and everything and they are not usually the most exciting affairs in the world.

I would also like to add that overtaking is not the be all and end all of life, IMHO.

I would say I am not exactly leaping up and down with enthusiasm over the regulations as whole, but nothing is terribly drastic.

The tyre rule though, that is one I am looking forward with interest to. I think that could be intriguing in the coming races.

Anyway, I think we should wait until the start of the European season before even considering coming down with any firm opinions either way.... I mean, to be dead set in your opinion on it all from the season opener........that just seems rather premature to my mind.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by dsg

I don't mind the two races per engine rule however these engines should only be used for qualifying and the race. Maybe if teams could use a second engine for practice and do as many laps as they want the fans could see a bit more of the cars.

I like Norbert Haug's suggestion.

New engine goes in ahead of Qualifying - you then use it for Qual, the Race and then practice at the next race.

That takes us back to an engine having to last for a whole race weekend, but it would avoid limited running in practice.

[muzza4ever]

Well I reckon the tyre and engine rules are OK - although Norbert Haug's suggestion makes sense.

Qualy needs to be a modification to the old system (fastest out of 12 laps) whereby drivers have to post a time in each half of a one hour session or even set 4 times 1 per 15 min section.

As for the aero rules - I think Ross (Brawn) has the right attitude and I've adovcated this for a while - tinkering with the aero downforce will NOT produce more overtaking, nor will it sufficiently slow people down - Moseley's intention was to cut downforce by 30% - most teams have got it as low as 15% by season start! So his measure is only half as effective as he intended.

Concentrate on mechanical grip make the "hole" behind a car bigger so there isn't the dirty air which allows for slipstreaming and mandate tracks o provide decent braking areas for late braking overtaking opportunities - it's not rocket science.

[neil_davidson2]

I found the race interesting rather than exciting, and I can't help feel that the interest was simply generated by watching the new rules in action for the first time. I was surprised at how Kimi and MS failed to have much impact in terms of coming up through the field. The concern being that if the quicker cars can't come up through the field of a weather-mixed grid then what does this leave in store for us if qualifying is dry?

[sonic]

It was a weird race thanks to a weird qual - so its hard to make a judgement.

I also got the feeling that, apart from alonso, everyone was erring on the side of caution. waiting before they see how the tyres and motors hold up. Once they get the confidence and the feel for it, they'll know when they can push vs have to hold back.

In terms of qual, I must admit I like the 1 lap rule I like seeign a drivers whole lap, and the drama of the build up, and think it is a truer test of who is a quick driver., but I hate, hate, hate the combined times though. they should have both sessions and allow you to use the fastest time from either one (as they used to with the old 2 x 1 hour sessions). That way people will still have to try hard on saturday - but everything is still to play for on the sunday morning. simple.

removing downforce almost completely and going back to super grippy slicks would be the best thing to ever happen to F1. we would end up with real 'racing' like in touring cars, Karts, Bikes.

[kdr]

as regards to the engine, aero and tyre rules i'm undecided. what still concerns me is the inherently unfair qualifying rules. basically f1 is lucky that it was "nice guy, lucks never on his side" fisichella that benefitted most from the wet weather on saturday, because if it had been schumacher that had got the dry track and the pole...then scarpered off into the distance during the race...this board would be in meltdown and max would be trying to talk bernie down off that ledge. imho of course.

[N I Tram]

While I appreciate that Australia had a special set of circumstances, particualrly regarding qualifying, I think the race was boring and the new rules were terrible. Mixed-up grids used to be a guarantee of excitement; in Melbourne there was virtually none. The qualifying system makes drivers too obsessed with not making mistakes, and if weather affects either session the grid becomes virtually random. They should definitely sort the qualifying out so that pole is secure on saturday night though - if they want action on Sunday morning for the fans at the track, put one of the support races on.

We won't know for sure about the long life engines until Malaysia, but my suspicion is that if one engine fails for one of the guys who aren't getting a new engine, everyone who is will ease off, and possibly be caught by Button, Michael et al. Formula 1 should be a sprint anyway, not an endurance race, and ideally not a set of sprints. None of the 'cost-cutting' rules have really made it cheaper anyway.

[stmookeyj033]

Unusual cricumstances or otherwise, I thought the new rules made the racing as boring as any race at the Hungaroring.

[Marbot]

If qualifying had been run as Tony Purnell suggested(2 qualifying races,1 saturday and 1 sunday morning,10 laps each)that might have been interesting and exciting(both ingredients are required).

Or we could have gone back to the old 12 lap system(only interesting at the end or when conditions were favourable)with some modifications.

I think the main problem with the 12 lap thing is that everything would happen at once and only the odd appearance of a Jordan or a Minardi to entertain the crowd.

[Red]

David had a good idea. 4 runs (12 laps) in 1 hour, each driver having to go out in every 15 minutes. That would still keep the TV happy, since they don't broadcast 1 hour only for last 20 minute action, but will make Max sad since it would remove the lottery element.

Ross Brawn and Ferrari had a similar idea last year, but I forgot the details. I think it was 12 laps, and each driver had to go out at least once in every 20 minutes. (I kinda like this one more, since a driver may chose even more: either 4 runs, or 3. If it wasn't Ross' idea, I'm copyrighting it right now )

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Red

David had a good idea. 4 runs (12 laps) in 1 hour, each driver having to go out in every 15 minutes. That would still keep the TV happy, since they don't broadcast 1 hour only for last 20 minute action, but will make Max sad since it would remove the lottery element.

Ross Brawn and Ferrari had a similar idea last year, but I forgot the details. I think it was 12 laps, and each driver had to go out at least once in every 20 minutes. (I kinda like this one more, since a driver may chose even more: either 4 runs, or 3. If it wasn't Ross' idea, I'm copyrighting it right now )

I'm afraid it was RBs idea, unless he stole it from someone else.

But either of those would be better than the current system.

The thing that bothers me most is that it's so blatantly obvious,you wonder how they managed to come up with the current one!

[Red]

Oh well, there goes my moment of glory.. I could have been the savior of F1.

[Marbot]

The other thing of course as regards the one tyre rule is that you wouldn't want to punish your tyres each time you went out.

So your first run would be a good'un followed by two slow runs and then another quick run at the end if you thought your time could be beaten.So you could still be left with a boring bit in the middle.hhhhmmm.

Or maybe they'd just go for it at the end,just like before.hhhhmmm.

[Red]

Hmm, but ditch the 1 set of tyres rule altogether. I mean, they surely don't save fortunes on tyres, do they? (As a matter of facts they increase costs, since they're forced to test more, plus R&D that tyre manufacturers have to do as well). They can also dump the 'race fuel quals' as well, since we all know now that it didn't provide the expected 'reshuffling of the grid'.

[Marbot]

It's way too late to ditch the one tyre rule,the only alternative now is a control tyre.

It's not the cost of the tyres it's the cost ot testing.

Now if they could use a different tyre for qualifying than for the race(the practise tyre for example)then 12 lap qually might just work.

If they used a new tyre from the beginning of the race and then used the same tyre for practise and qually at the next race that might get us somewhere.

[Red]

Speaking of limited amounts of tyres used... I do remember that they allowed teams 2 extra sets of dry tyres, trying to encourage them to take the track more often on Friday (when usually they were only saving tyres, doing very limited amounts of laps). Now they made a U-turn. Oh well.

[Snrub]

I don't have a problem with the qualifying and engine rules because F1 needed spicing up. It's a little artificial, but I want to see a good race and these variables are more likely to provide it. (freak weather excluded) The problem is that while some spice was added, a lot more was taken away. It's boring to see drivers toddling around the track saving their car. I want to see them @ 100% for 58 laps. It's boring when drivers cannot or will not pass. Where was the racing?

[Marbot]

All the same,a new set of tyres for qualifying (12 lap) and then a new set for the race isn't asking too much is it?

The drivers would still have to manage one set for qually and one set for the race.(same spec tyre of course).And would have to use a qually tyre if one got damaged during the race.

[Red]

Yup, 1 set for quals and 1 for race might work. Or, 2-3-4 sets for both Saturday and Sunday. Still saving tyres, still letting them to chose.

[garcon]

My immediate impressions are that, as Martin Brundle said during commentary, the rules will give us a return to the approach in the 80s - drivers taking a longer view of the race as a whole to ensure they finish, rather than treating it as 3 or 4 short sprints between stops. Whether that will give us more action/entertainment is questionable, but those of us who remember the eighties and also enjoy endurance racing will - I think - appreciate it.

Of course, you can't say for sure how things will develop until we're four or five races in, and as with any rule changes that goes for the FIA and teams aswell as us punters - expect to see new ways of dealing with the new rules from the teams, and possibly (probably?) some "counter-tweaks" to the rules from the FIA...