Formula Renault BARC '08 - Page 4

mark14 · 1 Aug 2008, 07:56 (Ref:2261476)

Morning Everyone,
I understand that the 8V cars will not be part of the BARC series next year.
Any feel for where they will race next year ?
I have been running a Tatuus 97 in the Monoposto championship but it has not been all that competitive, probably due to my driving but the 40mm ride height seems to be an issue.
Any thoughts ?

ianpearson · 1 Aug 2008, 08:15 (Ref:2261489)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark14

Morning Everyone,
I understand that the 8V cars will not be part of the BARC series next year.
Any feel for where they will race next year ?
I have been running a Tatuus 97 in the Monoposto championship but it has not been all that competitive, probably due to my driving but the 40mm ride height seems to be an issue.
Any thoughts ?

I think the cars will turn up anywhere that will have them, mono, f4, libre. The 40mm effects them but its the same for an F3, some of the effects could be ironed out with some testing, don't even want to get into 40mm ride height disscusion & its not the relevant thread for the subject.

I think the 8v cars with the right chip in, no restrictor & correct ratio's would still be very competitive in mono & would wipe the floor with the competition in F4. With the current state of my wallet, mono may be all i can afford next season so i may have to wheel out one of our old ones & put my money where my mouth is

jamessimons · 1 Aug 2008, 09:07 (Ref:2261514)

Ian,

Please help, I know every must of had enough of me posting questions on here by now. Do you know what car the throttle bodies are originally from my plastic disc has broken and not sure I can get an aluminium disc made up in 3 days as I wanted to tesy wednesday before racing saturday to be sure I have resolved all my electrical gremlins. I found a short in the loom on the wire to the fuel pump external to the tank.

In reply to your previous post F4 seem keen to have us next year if budgets don't stretch to carbon cars plus my stream of reliablity issues this year means I need more time in the car to get up to speed. They have also agreed to seeing how our times compare without air restrictor other issues are free other than ride height.

JNWRF01 · 1 Aug 2008, 09:50 (Ref:2261548)

"....would wipe the floor with the competition in F4"

Oh really!! Looking forward to you wiping the floor with me soon then...

I don;t know why you think F4 is diff to Mono - we are doing very similar lap times to the 2ltr Dallaras (and in some cases our lap records are faster than the monos) - the racing is a lot more competitive this season.

ianpearson · 1 Aug 2008, 09:57 (Ref:2261555)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamessimons

Ian,

Please help, I know every must of had enough of me posting questions on here by now. Do you know what car the throttle bodies are originally from my plastic disc has broken and not sure I can get an aluminium disc made up in 3 days as I wanted to tesy wednesday before racing saturday to be sure I have resolved all my electrical gremlins. I found a short in the loom on the wire to the fuel pump external to the tank.

In reply to your previous post F4 seem keen to have us next year if budgets don't stretch to carbon cars plus my stream of reliablity issues this year means I need more time in the car to get up to speed. They have also agreed to seeing how our times compare without air restrictor other issues are free other than ride height.

James,
No idea what they came off originally. What you want to do is strip the pulley system down to just the spindle. the spindle should have some flats on it & a male thread on the end of it. You now fit a mild steel or stainless steel sheet 1.5 to 2 mm thick item that locates on the flats & locks on with a nut. Your sheet item requires a hole in the other end to fix your cable too, you can fix to this with either a rod end or fabricated clevis & nipple arrangement.

i understand whats writtern above makes no sense at all, e mail me your mobile number & i'll take a picture tonight & message you if you want

ianpearson · 1 Aug 2008, 10:11 (Ref:2261561)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JNWRF01

"....would wipe the floor with the competition in F4"

Oh really!! Looking forward to you wiping the floor with me soon then...

I don;t know why you think F4 is diff to Mono - we are doing very similar lap times to the 2ltr Dallaras (and in some cases our lap records are faster than the monos) - the racing is a lot more competitive this season.

I said the cars, but u never know, i may be up to it myself although current form suggest otherwise.

isn't F4 an 1800 zetec mono a 2000 zetec??

Whenever i've run with F4 spec cars an 8v valve renault always seems to have the upperhand, maybe it wasn't u????

but seriously an 8v renault in BARC spec is like a sprinter with its arm tied behind it back, its re chipped with an air restrictor & fixed ratios. I know they go a lot better with the right chip in, a good second per lap at brands Even with the restirctor still in it.

i believe the cars would be competitive in either, i could be wrong

ianpearson · 1 Aug 2008, 10:19 (Ref:2261565)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JNWRF01

"....would wipe the floor with the competition in F4"

Oh really!! Looking forward to you wiping the floor with me soon then...

I don;t know why you think F4 is diff to Mono - we are doing very similar lap times to the 2ltr Dallaras (and in some cases our lap records are faster than the monos) - the racing is a lot more competitive this season.

just checked your lap records, quite respectable really, you are within a second of 8v renault times at most of the tracks. looks like you are having a good season

JNWRF01 · 1 Aug 2008, 10:41 (Ref:2261577)

The mono cars have about another 20-30hp I believe - and you can run stickier tyres and a trick diff.

I haven't run our cars in the 2ltr spec yet - but at a guess - they would be good for a 1.07/8 around Snett - on the basis its a struggle to get a F4 under a 1.09 (well it is for me).

Remember also in F4 the choice of slicks are all Avons - either the F3 compound or the USFF2000 spec - so not sure how much difference it will make switching off the FRen rubber.

I would be good if we could find some parity between the 8V cars and the current zetecs to push more cars out onto the grid. The racing this year has been very good - with most people getting under the previous lap records. The fact that the F4 mob are a social bunch also helps....

Bob Pearson · 1 Aug 2008, 11:11 (Ref:2261592)

This is an interesting debate, Dudfield Leisure who used to run in BARC FR did evaluation tests using Avon F3 rubber around 2002 and found it relatively easy to adapt to with ( if I remember rightly) little or no performance loss.
The big killer will be the 40mm reguirement, the roll centre will have moved off somewhere totally different. I don't know how much effect that will have. The pushrod adjusters may also need replacement with longer items, not really a problem and maybe a bit of business for us !!
You already have some people from BARC with you guys, at the end of the year there are a potential further 8-10 cars with no home, but whether they go up for sale and the drivers stay in BARC or whether they go with the drivers to another formula remains to be seen.
Running the FR2000's in BARC is a world away from running the 8 valves and I think it is inevitable that some drivers will opt to go with their 8 valves rather than try to stay in BARC.

Triple J Motorsport · 1 Aug 2008, 12:08 (Ref:2261627)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianpearson

just checked your lap records, quite respectable really, you are within a second of 8v renault times at most of the tracks. looks like you are having a good season

If Jez (who has been the class of the field winning all the races he's started or did you have a spin some where and come 2nd? and breaking most of the lap records is a second slower than you Ian surely raising your Renault to 40mm we mean you are on a par? How ever you are the class of the field in a 8v think the other guys will be along way off in their 8v's.

I still have alot of original Tatuus parts for the RC98/99 if anyone needs any spares.

JNWRF01 · 1 Aug 2008, 12:13 (Ref:2261629)

out of interest - what sort of power have teh renaults got?? I think we are c.180

andy97 · 1 Aug 2008, 12:50 (Ref:2261650)

Mono 2000 cars can run engines to the following regs:

MONO 2000: STANDARD PRODUCTION IRON BLOCK ENGINES UP TO 2000cc WITH NON VARIABLE CAMSHAFT TIMING PRODUCED TO A MINIMUM NUMBER OF 1000 UNITS IN ANY ONE YEAR FOR ANY ONE EU MEMBER STATE. Only engines for which the manufacturer's detailed specifications are available to the MRC are permitted. Registered competitors must ensure that the manufacturer's specification, to the satisfaction of the eligibility scrutineer, can be provided for the engine that is entered in the championship.

Engines with variable camshaft timing as original specification are not eligible even if timing is subsequently fixed permanently.

Standard specification does not mean a collection of standard components. It means an engine which matches the original specification for the make and model indicated by the manufacturer's engine number. This includes compression ratio and valve timing. Valve timing should be capable of being checked in the paddock by following manufacturers specified timing procedure, including the use of any special keys or tools.

Engines which comply with the specification contained in the Formula Renault Sport Manual up to and including 1999 are deemed to be eligible.

5.7.1. (a)Modifications Permitted:
i. Original specification fuel injection may be replaced by carburettors. Fuel injection systems including ECU, to the specification for Formula Vauxhall/Opel (up to 1999), Formula Renault Sport (up to 1999), Formula 2000 or Formula Asia, is deemed to comply.
ii. Dry sump lubrication system permitted, together with modifications to engine castings necessarily required to enable fitment.
iii. Standard flywheel may be replaced by a steel flywheel weighing not less than 3.6kg including ring-gear.
iv. Ignition system is free.
v. Big end bolts free.
vi. A re-bore allowance in accordance with manufacturers specification up to 0.5mm; together with manufacturers specification replacement pistons. No additional machining to recover original compression ration is required or permitted as a result of this modification only.
vii. Cylinder head gasket plane may be machined in order to recover a warped head. Original specification compression ratio must be recovered by local machining to the combustion chamber in the head. All such work must be reported to the Eligibility Scrutineer who may specify a combustion chamber volume and request to examine the head before use.

8v F Renaults don't ever seem to have gone that well in Mono but the 40mm ride height issue maybe a bit of a red herring as plenty of races have been won by F3 chassised cars at 40mm. Perhaps a quick driver has never really had a go at Mono in an FR?

andy97 · 1 Aug 2008, 13:40 (Ref:2261677)

I'm too late to edit my last post but I should add that the Mono engine regs for Mono 2000 are as stated, currently.

Bob Pearson · 1 Aug 2008, 19:58 (Ref:2261825)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JNWRF01

out of interest - what sort of power have teh renaults got?? I think we are c.180

I've never put one on a rolling road so I'm not really sure, the figure quoted is about 165 - 175 BHP, so I guess it is a bit less than yours.

mark14 · 1 Aug 2008, 21:23 (Ref:2261862)

Couple of mentions of the 'right chip' in the ECU - wasn't aware it could be changed.
Anyone care to enlighten me ?
Thanks.

Redracer77 · 2 Aug 2008, 07:28 (Ref:2261983)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianpearson

I think the cars will turn up anywhere that will have them, mono, f4, libre. The 40mm effects them but its the same for an F3, some of the effects could be ironed out with some testing, don't even want to get into 40mm ride height disscusion & its not the relevant thread for the subject.

I think the 8v cars with the right chip in, no restrictor & correct ratio's would still be very competitive in mono & would wipe the floor with the competition in F4. With the current state of my wallet, mono may be all i can afford next season so i may have to wheel out one of our old ones & put my money where my mouth is

wipe the floor with F4?

Monos race winning driver Geof Fern raced with us at Angelsey last december and was blown away by my 3 x F4's. One of my drivers had never even sat in the car before. When you see how much more power they have in Mono with the 5 speed gearboxes, 2l engines and bigger webers you would think the opposite but the standard of driving in F4 is a lot better and jez and the others at the front are posting faster laps than mono this year....

Redracer77 · 2 Aug 2008, 07:43 (Ref:2261986)

F4 will be busy next season with an extra 10 cars if we have have reserves this year....

It would be nice to have a Renault Class within F4.

Ian please bring your 8v car out for Silverstone at the end of the month as it will give the organisers a chance to look at how competitive a 8v car can be and they can then make sure the regs are set properly. The current Renault guys are not very quick.

Bob Pearson · 2 Aug 2008, 22:02 (Ref:2262294)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark14

Couple of mentions of the 'right chip' in the ECU - wasn't aware it could be changed.
Anyone care to enlighten me ?
Thanks.

There was what was referred to as a eurocup chip, it gave more ignition advance and coupled and a consequent increase in power. BARC Renault were never allowed to use it, their ECU's had to be re-chipped and sealed.
I really don't know where such a chip could be found, except by approaching a few people on the continent.

jedrinck · 10 Aug 2008, 20:45 (Ref:2266975)

The "apex" universal joints on the shift linkage of my car have been found to have too much play and I would like to replace them, but I find them ridiculously expensive at 133 Euros a piece. Is there an alternative product which is cheaper?

Bob Pearson · 11 Aug 2008, 07:37 (Ref:2267129)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedrinck

The "apex" universal joints on the shift linkage of my car have been found to have too much play and I would like to replace them, but I find them ridiculously expensive at 133 Euros a piece. Is there an alternative product which is cheaper?

133 euros sounds a bit strong, have you tried Raceparts, they do mail order.

jedrinck · 11 Aug 2008, 11:49 (Ref:2267224)

Right on, as always. They ask just a little more than half as much, I already ordered. Thank you Bob!

jedrinck · 11 Aug 2008, 12:03 (Ref:2267234)

Just out of interest, could the BARC ECU be reset to the original ignition mapping to give back that lost "euro power"?

Bob Pearson · 11 Aug 2008, 12:41 (Ref:2267253)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedrinck

Just out of interest, could the BARC ECU be reset to the original ignition mapping to give back that lost "euro power"?

I don't know if it is possible to do other than re-chipping.

mark14 · 12 Aug 2008, 06:53 (Ref:2267636)

Morning,
Does anyone have a spare Madin front wheel outer rim for an 8V - or a complete wheel for sale ?
Thanks

Bob Pearson · 12 Aug 2008, 07:23 (Ref:2267652)

give me a PM Mark, we have loads of all off sets for sale.