[LM24] Jaguar evaluating LMP1 programme

[Gingers4Justice]

If Jaguar were planning on running a diesel, they can shove this project where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned! Every single diesel on the grid is a proper racing car lost.

Hope this car is a good-looking, good-sounding, dark green, petrol-hybrid.

[LMP1]

Hi everyone.


Jaguar 'do' diesel engines in their road cars, so I wouldn't have a problem with one in their racing car - if it made it competative enough to take the fight to Audi/Puegeot.

With TATA's finance, a diesel engine and a British Racing Green livery, Jaguar could do some serious damage in Leman/WEC!

We can dream, afterall, who saw Porsche coming back!

"BMW-Diesel-M-Sport" next anyone?

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by LMP1

Hi everyone.


"BMW-Diesel-M-Sport" next anyone?

Who knows? DTM and Lemans is where BMW belong.alot of unnamed manufacturers are interested for 2014...

I was shocked to hear that in this autoweek article that the toyota lmp1 had already tested"i assume the hybrid mode" for the ACO in secret...

if toyota can keep a secret...you know its 10xs easier for any other manufacturer

[johntt]

It wouldn't have to be a diesel to be competitive. All Jag would have to do is throw the same amount of money, talent and dedication at a petrol car that Audi and Pug have done with their diesel cars. You could put and Audi/Pug engine in the back of an Oreca or a Lola and it still wouldn't be as quick as a 908 or an R18.

The energy limit rules coming into force in 2014 should also do a very good job of equalising the various power sources available.

[Fogelhund]

** assuming they get the energy equivalency right, for the various sources of energy.

[Tim the Grey]

Here's a bucket of Joules. How you use it, from which source, that's up to you.
Low Cost energy is gone. Let's get serious about Efficient Energy.
I don't care how it's done, it keeps racing relevant, and keeps Le Mans where it should be. Hopefully, F1 will wither away.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Here's a bucket of Joules. How you use it, from which source, that's up to you.
Low Cost energy is gone. Let's get serious about Efficient Energy.
I don't care how it's done, it keeps racing relevant, and keeps Le Mans where it should be. Hopefully, F1 will wither away.

spot on

[Adam43]

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

** assuming they get the energy equivalency right, for the various sources of energy.

the point of this is that their is no need for equivalency.

everyone gets the same amount of energy. equivalencies aren't required. why should i be able to make a 7.0litre v12 and then get more energy because of that......That's not the point...everyone gets the same amount of energy.how you achieve the efficiency is whats going to really push manufacturers(and trickle to road cars).

all the fuels have a J/G value so the fuel will be allocated this way.....

but technically....How does a hybrid system fit into these rules.... because the hybrid is constantly taking in energy....if the aco decided to say that the the energy from hybrid would be added to this energy usage total(a hybrid could easily output more than the allocated energy within an hour.so it would be hybrid or bust.

[MitchZ06]

Audi Racer....geez man misunderstand yet another post. He's talking about the energy equivalency between the different fuels. As has been discussed before (remember when I outlined the differences between petrol and diesel to you to?) diesel, petrol, isobutanol, methanol, etc all have a different amount of energy per milliliter, gram, whatever and thats what needs to be balanced....

As far as hybrids go, I'd think a kw/h limit imposed by the ACO would be the way to go.

[Tim the Grey]

Now, as I understand The Laws of Thermodynamics. you cannot just creqate energy out of nowhere. A Hybrid should be designed to RECYCLE energy, such as charging a battery under braking. Rather than just heating a disc through friction.
That way, you make your energy quota last longer, go further, or faster. It's up to each car designer/builder how they do this.
You still get a standard bucket of Joules, to last 24 Hours. Burn petrol, diesel, hydrogen, spin up a flywheel, make steam, charge a battery, it's YOUR choice. When your energy bucket is empty, you stop.
Hell, if you work out how to race using a sail, that's fine, free energy! It's outside the bucket... Though tacking on Mulsanne may be 'discouraged'!
Le Mans is a Grand Prix of ENDURANCE, lest we forget.
Oh, and make the efficiency targets real, but challenging. IIRC early in Group C, Lancia walked the 1000k races by running under Group 6 rules. The early 956 just used too much fuel.

[gwyllion]

Can the discussion that is not related to the potential Jaguar LMP1 program be moved to the LMP Future Regulations topic?

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Now, as I understand The Laws of Thermodynamics. you cannot just creqate energy out of nowhere. A Hybrid should be designed to RECYCLE energy, such as charging a battery under braking. Rather than just heating a disc through friction.

A turbocharger recycles energy.

As does exhaust gas recirculation. That however I doubt we will see on a racecar.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

the point of this is that their is no need for equivalency.

everyone gets the same amount of energy. equivalencies aren't required. why should i be able to make a 7.0litre v12 and then get more energy because of that......That's not the point...everyone gets the same amount of energy.how you achieve the efficiency is whats going to really push manufacturers(and trickle to road cars).

all the fuels have a J/G value so the fuel will be allocated this way.....

but technically....How does a hybrid system fit into these rules.... because the hybrid is constantly taking in energy....if the aco decided to say that the the energy from hybrid would be added to this energy usage total(a hybrid could easily output more than the allocated energy within an hour.so it would be hybrid or bust.

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Audi Racer....geez man misunderstand yet another post. He's talking about the energy equivalency between the different fuels. As has been discussed before (remember when I outlined the differences between petrol and diesel to you to?) diesel, petrol, isobutanol, methanol, etc all have a different amount of energy per milliliter, gram, whatever and thats what needs to be balanced....

As far as hybrids go, I'd think a kw/h limit imposed by the ACO would be the way to go.

Hey Mitch take a lesson from your own book!....i quoted my original response to show you that i already stated that!.

J/G is Joules/Gram.


you dont equivalize energy...the concept of energy is just that....no equivalency....doesnt matter if you use diesel or hydrogen or petrol, or butanol,1500Joules is 1500Joules.....that willl mean that the teams get differnt amounts of fuel to work with...the diesels get the least fuel obviously. it takes less diesel to make 1500 joules than it does petrol.

in addition..Kw/h doesnt solve anything because what if a manufacturer doesnt build a hybrid..then they are effectively screwed.....with 1500Joules(made up number)....any addition from the hybrid battery pack automatically is more than the allocated 1500 Joules.

[Tim the Grey]

Time Out guys? I just realised (Thanks Gwyllion) we are in the wrong thread...
Mods can you take the last few posts out of here into the LMP Future Regs thread?

[MitchZ06]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Hey Mitch take a lesson from your own book!....i quoted my original response to show you that i already stated that!.

J/G is Joules/Gram.


you dont equivalize energy...the concept of energy is just that....no equivalency....doesnt matter if you use diesel or hydrogen or petrol, or butanol,1500Joules is 1500Joules.....that willl mean that the teams get differnt amounts of fuel to work with...the diesels get the least fuel obviously. it takes less diesel to make 1500 joules than it does petrol.

in addition..Kw/h doesnt solve anything because what if a manufacturer doesnt build a hybrid..then they are effectively screwed.....with 1500Joules(made up number)....any addition from the hybrid battery pack automatically is more than the allocated 1500 Joules.

So no energy equivalency but you only get 1500joules? You see whats wrong with that statement? I do....

And in terms of kw/h, it'd only be applied to systems like hybrids and other regenerative electric propulsion systems, not EVERYBODY.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Time Out guys? I just realised (Thanks Gwyllion) we are in the wrong thread...
Mods can you take the last few posts out of here into the LMP Future Regs thread?

woah!. i actually thought this was the lmp evo as well...Sorry Jaguar.

[HJJ]

Le Mans: Jaguar denies it is working on an LMP1 race car

By: Quentin Spurring on 8/05/2011

Contrary to reports in mid-July, Jaguar has moved to deny speculation that it has been preparing to return to the 24 Hours of Le Mans with a new sports-prototype race car. A spokesperson for the Indian-owned British manufacturer said the reports were "purely speculative."

Tata, Jaguar's parent company, has said in the past that Le Mans was in Jaguar's DNA, having won there on seven occasions, and that the brand would race there again one day. However, the spokesman added that such a project was not a priority at this time, adding that he is not aware of any discussion at the corporate-board level about any motorsports program other than the RSR team's GT2 initiative in the American Le Mans Series.
Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...#ixzz1UCBTJ51x

.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by HJJ

Le Mans: Jaguar denies it is working on an LMP1 race car

Ugh, that's massively dissapointing

[Audi Racer]

Le Mans: Jaguar denies it is working on an LMP1 race car

So does toyota. So Did porsche, So did Audi......lol its a trend.

[Adam43]

I'm not the Scarlet Pimpernel.

[Tim the Grey]

NO! I'm NOT Spartacus...
I suspect a few folk in Whitley may be playing around 'After Hours' with concepts. We'll see what is for real, eventually.

[AstonGeoff]

If they've taken the time to deny it then it must be true! To some extent at least.

[Tim the Grey]

Contract Recruiters to JLR group, EPMC, have this little gem buried on their list.

EP19780 Project Team Leader - sport/race car development
Fees per hour £23.72
Original Duration: 12 Months
Division: Engineering to Order
Location: 18 - LandRover - Gaydon(LRGAYD)
Skills Required:
Race car team development lead. Knowledge of FIA rules and experience of implementation

Perhaps it's a Landie LMP1, not a Jag! Not paying much though...

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Perhaps it's a Landie LMP1, not a Jag! Not paying much though...

What do you mean? 5300 quid per month isn't much?