Is it time to award the ATCC & Bathurst 1000 for TCR?

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by Mixer

I love how the longest period of stability and prosperity - more than 25 years in fact, is when you think "the BS started"

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What prosperity?

Prosperity shows up in active participation. There isn't that in supercars. For all the chest puffing, they've attracted just as many distinctly different factory supported cars as what super touring did, and less distinctly different factory supported teams at Bathurst that what the 1997-98 Bathurst 1000s did.

Stability leads to less expensive or better value. Supercars has never generated this for the participants. The costs go up and up and up and up...Even accounting for inflation!

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by mayhem

Neither were street races and 200 million dollar TV contracts, so you know, ying and yang.

Orly?

That deal is an outlier.

How much was it worth without the Bathurst?

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

The enthusiasm itt seems to have slowed down?

But it's one of my favourites!

Anyway. To make a further point mixer used to diminish TCR about having contracted and validating RECs in supercars. One thing I remember about RECs is that if a holder misses out on a meeting, they are fined.

Why is this?

It's because supercars has an obligation to have X number of cars feature in their meetings. If even one of the lesser teams doesn't turn up to one meeting, supercars fails in its obligation particularly to the broadcaster.

So the economy works in a different way to TCR. But it's effectively the same thing. (However it's only a problem with TCR though)

There's also mayhem's big tv contract to break down. But it's hard for me to articulate atm.

[Speedy400]

There's also mayhem's big tv contract to break down. But it's hard for me to articulate atm.[/QUOTE]



There me a lot of things hard for you I feel.
You can love TCR with all your heart and no one will stop you. 👍🏼

I love TCR also... and Supercars, GT, F1 and so on.
I just don’t make silly arguments that pit 1 against another.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Speedy400

I just don’t make silly arguments that pit 1 against another.

What about when a category themselves openly pits themselves against another?

[Casper]

It would be ironic if Supercars demise was to see the rise of TCR. Personally I don't see TCR having a long future due to the stampede to electrification in Europe because of fleet average emission legislation. You can't race what ain't made unfortunately but there is a few years to go before that happens.

[gravin]

Originally Posted by Casper

It would be ironic if Supercars demise was to see the rise of TCR. Personally I don't see TCR having a long future due to the stampede to electrification in Europe because of fleet average emission legislation. You can't race what ain't made unfortunately but there is a few years to go before that happens.

Seems TCR have that base covered with ETCR waiting in the wings. Lots like VAG have three to four brands they can switch quickly from the SEat developed ETCR car (Seat, VW and Audi plus Skoda if necessary) and Hyundai / Kia too. Am sure Honda would be interested too.

A move to ETCR might see Toyota/Nissan or even Mercedes consider an entry - likewise Renault or PSA (Peugeot, Citroen, Opel) might move across from a TCR program to ETCR.

[Casper]

Due to the current changes in Europe where the TCR cars come from in the main and where all manufacturers are being forced down the Hybrid/BEV path like it or not what lifespan has TCR got when cars like the Golf etc will be BEV or simply not made at all? It is definitely not long term so will it just be a niche class and then whither on the vine?

[gravin]

Originally Posted by Casper

Due to the current changes in Europe where the TCR cars come from in the main and where all manufacturers are being forced down the Hybrid/BEV path like it or not what lifespan has TCR got when cars like the Golf etc will be BEV or simply not made at all? It is definitely not long term so will it just be a niche class and then whither on the vine?

Will live on as ETCR IMHO.

ETCR continues to be developed
https://electric-tcr.com/en/
and three auto groups (Alfa, VAG and Hyundai) are involved to date.

[Casper]

I think electrification could be a very good thing for Motor Sport if the lack of noise can be overcome. It reduces the cost of racing and levels the engine advantage for all. I doubt that it will go down well though as fans are used to noise as part of the spectacle.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Tourer

It's possible at some time in the future that Supercars isn't there, or changes so much that it doesn't make sense for it to have the ATCC and Bathurst 1000

How can Supercars ever not have the 1000?

The race was created for them, and is promoted and operated by them for themselves

If Supercars goes, the Supercheap Auto 1000 goes with it

[Casper]

Originally Posted by one five five

How can Supercars ever not have the 1000?

The race was created for them, and is promoted and operated by them for themselves

If Supercars goes, the Supercheap Auto 1000 goes with it

Bathurst was a race long before SC were even thought of so when SC are no longer around in the future and nothing lasts forever I guess it will either die or somone will come along and promote a race on the same date. My crystal ball cannot tell me the future unfortunately so details are lacking.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Casper

Bathurst was a race long before SC

As stated Supercars don't run the "real" Australian Racing Driver's Club Bathurst 1000km race, they run their own Bathurst 1000km. The 1998 AMP Bathurst 1000 race won by Richards and Rydell in the Volvo S40 was the last official Bathurst 1000km race.

Given Supercars run their own race, once the Coronavirus situation clears, TCR would be a good touring car category to contest the ARDC Bathurst 1000km race as a fully fledged international invitational.

Then it would be up to Motorsport Australia as to the time that Supercars is no longer befitting of the Australian Touring Car Championship title, as the second piece of the puzzle in the topic of this discussion.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Casper

Bathurst was a race long before SC were even thought of so when SC are no longer around in the future and nothing lasts forever I guess it will either die or somone will come along and promote a race on the same date. My crystal ball cannot tell me the future unfortunately so details are lacking.

The Supercheap Auto 1000, as the event is known these days, was not around at all before SC, infact they were both invented in the same year.

I’m not sure what “promote a race on the same date” had to do with anything?

EDIT - As V8 Fireworks has said

[Casper]

Originally Posted by one five five

The Supercheap Auto 1000, as the event is known these days, was not around at all before SC, infact they were both invented in the same year.

I’m not sure what “promote a race on the same date” had to do with anything?

EDIT - As V8 Fireworks has said

I am not sure what any of what you wrote even means.

[bludvl_x19]

The Bathurst 1000 for Supercars was invented the year that Supercars started.

The 1000km race that has the lineage back through Group A and C to the Hardie Ferodo 500 at Bathurst, and then before that Phillip Island was last contested in 1998 and won by Richards and Rydell; as Casper stated earlier in the thread.

[Mixer]

Yeah and the Olympics needs to find a new name, it is clearly a different event after there wasn't an event held in 1940 or 1944....

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[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Yeah and the Olympics needs to find a new name, it is clearly a different event after there wasn't an event held in 1940 or 1944....

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Show me a year that had two Olympics held, and that particular argument will hold water.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bludvl_x19

Show me a year that had two Olympics held, and that particular argument will hold water.

1924. Paris & Chamonix, France
1928 Amsterdam, Netherlands & St Moritz, Switzerland

& so on until 1992

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[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bludvl_x19

Show me a year that had two Olympics held, and that particular argument will hold water.

2016: The Wenlock Olympian Games (Shropshire) and the Olympic Games (Rio).


OT:
The Wenlock Olympian Games of 2020 was scheduled to be the 134th hosting of the event, having started in 1850. The 'Modern' Olympics is not the event with the true lineage.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

2016: The Wenlock Olympian Games (Shropshire) and the Olympic Games (Rio).


OT:
The Wenlock Olympian Games of 2020 was scheduled to be the 134th hosting of the event, having started in 1850. The 'Modern' Olympics is not the event with the true lineage.

That is an answer that I wasn't expecting, but one that works. Which one does everyone believe to be the "real" Olympics? And which one is?

[crmalcolm]

Baron Pierre de Coubertin visited the Wenlock Olympian Society in 1890, which held a special festival in his honour. He was inspired by Dr Brookes and went on to establish the International Olympic Committee.

One was born from the other. Both can claim to be the 'real' Olympics. Although personally, I think neither are. The ancient games are the original, all others are 'inspired by'.

Can TCR have a '1000' inspired by another event, which might ultimately replace the original in people's minds?

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Casper

I am not sure what any of what you wrote even means.

Simple

Bathurst 500/1000 - started in 1963, organised by ARDC and later Ch7, run on the NSW Labour Day long weekend every year for various sedan car regulations until the end of 1998, plus a half hearted 500km on the same weekend in 1999

Supercheap Auto 1000 - started in 1997 as a completely new and seperate event to the Bathurst 1000, organised initially by IMG for specifically V8Supercars themselves, with Supercars taking over the promotion and running of the event circa-2001, originally announced as the Australian 1000 Classic before Primus stepped in to back the inaugural 1997 race. 1997 race run on the third weekend of October, 1998-2000 run in mid-November, 2001-current run on the second weekend of October

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Can TCR have a '1000' inspired by another event, which might ultimately replace the original in people's minds?

Why not? That’s exactly what happened with the current Supercars 1000

The sheep think it’s still the same event as started in 1963

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

is this a pointless thread

The future of the Supercars category is yet again called into question here: https://www.speedcafe.com/2020/07/13...maro-for-gen3/

How can ATCC & Bathurst 1000 be contested by a category with no future?

[Backagain]

TCR has a long way to go before it can say it has cemented a future. It is by no means a settled class with drivers coming and going and cars failing to appear, reliability seems to be a big problem as well and we have not seen any endurance races yet.
This whole thread seems rather pointless based on baseless speculations and wishful thinking.