Turn 8 at Clipsal

[Malfunction Junction]

It seems to me that placing tyres on the outside of turn 8 would tend to throw cars back onto the racing line. Tyre barriers, even with belted fronts, tend to have a bit much "boing" to be that close.

Placing tyres on the inside of the exit of turn 8 may help to reduce some of the secondary impact, but by then the damage is largely done.

I still think a SAFER barrier is a better idea, but like Woolley, I doubt it can be done properly in a temporary scenario.

[Woolley]

Seeing how much the barrier moved when hit I think answers the question of SAFER barriers. You need a rigid structure and you then have to fit a specially made construction in front of it. All of which takes time and serious amounts of dosh. Neither of which are in great supply on public roads (not to mention the time spent dismantling it afterwards.

The new layout, while making it into a bit of a canyon, did seem to lessen the severity of the initial impact. I realize now what was meant by lining the inside wall, but a tyre barrier would be sufficient I would have thought. You couldn't put it on the outside - one car had a major moment avoiding the one in the wall - can you imagine the chaos if someone threw tyres everywhere during an incident.

Not sure about the barrier on the inside. It didn't look like Wood clipped it from the wall-mounted camera, but it's always a possibility. On the other hand it stops anyone launching themselves over the kerb, and you can't take off much speed if you've got the wheels off the floor.

[mac]

Originally Posted by Woolley

The new layout, while making it into a bit of a canyon, did seem to lessen the severity of the initial impact.

It did seem to lessen the impacts a touch - but it also narrowed the room on exit, giving drivers less room for error. Eg. Courtney would have gotten away with his little moment in Sunday warm-up in 2008 and the car would not have failed and pitched him into the wall at Turn 3.

Originally Posted by Woolley

Not sure about the barrier on the inside. It didn't look like Wood clipped it from the wall-mounted camera, but it's always a possibility. On the other hand it stops anyone launching themselves over the kerb, and you can't take off much speed if you've got the wheels off the floor.

I was referring to Grant Johnson in the utes, but there are countless examples over the years of drivers clipping that inside barrier and being catapulted into the outside wall - prime one being Ashley Cooper's fatal accident last year.

Behind that barrier is metres of grass - how hard would it be to turn it into a normal road circuit turn?

You could easily put a flat or saw-tooth kerb in there that would not launch two wheels into the air - just like they have at Turn 1 at Eastern Creek, or Doohan Corner at Phillip Island.

That inside barrier causes accidents - and I thought that was why we got rid of the original chicane...

[madman16]

While i agree that something a little safer needs to be put in place (and i thought they had developed it now to attach Safer Barriers to temp structures) i think people tend to forget that no matter what type of layout is put in place Racing Drivers will try to go through there faster than the next person.

Accidents will still happen and people will still be talking about ways to improve it.

Okay bring back the chicane....People obviously forget about Brad Jones's accident, what about Dean Canto and did Paul Weel crash there aswell?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by mac

You could easily put a flat or saw-tooth kerb in there that would not launch two wheels into the air - just like they have at Turn 1 at Eastern Creek, or Doohan Corner at Phillip Island.

That inside barrier causes accidents - and I thought that was why we got rid of the original chicane...

Because there's a curb there for road cars.

[Crash Test]

Originally Posted by mac

It did seem to lessen the impacts a touch - but it also narrowed the room on exit, giving drivers less room for error. Eg. Courtney would have gotten away with his little moment in Sunday warm-up in 2008 and the car would not have failed and pitched him into the wall at Turn 3.


I was referring to Grant Johnson in the utes, but there are countless examples over the years of drivers clipping that inside barrier and being catapulted into the outside wall - prime one being Ashley Cooper's fatal accident last year.

Behind that barrier is metres of grass - how hard would it be to turn it into a normal road circuit turn?

You could easily put a flat or saw-tooth kerb in there that would not launch two wheels into the air - just like they have at Turn 1 at Eastern Creek, or Doohan Corner at Phillip Island.

That inside barrier causes accidents - and I thought that was why we got rid of the original chicane...

Amen, get rid of that inside barrier, it is the problem there.

As far as saw tooth kerbs go, they tend to go on the exit apexes of corners. Have a normal kerb, a witches hat bolted in, and a judge of fact like every other corner out there.

Tyre barriers? They wouldn't work on the inside or outside wall, after turn eight you are really only giving the wall glancing blow with a lot of momentum still heading to turn nine, ie the angle of impact is nowhere near acute enough for a tyre barrier to do its job correctly.

[xr8]

My son races ARC. He said it was still taken flat but before you could see around the corner a little but now it is totally blind.He says it is now less safe for his class than before. Why do cams do these things without consultation from drivers of all classes!

[rockdog]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Carusos crash was caused by a Kiwi...lets ban all the Kiwis.....

Turn 8 looked fine to me.Maybe some drivers just need to harden up.

I cant believe some of the things Im reading on here. Some of you dont seems to care whether a driver walks away from a crash or not. Drivers dont have a death wish. They would ALL like to be able to go home at the end of the day, not to the grave yard.
I know, cause I am one!

If that makes me weak, so be it.

If biff and barge and crashes and death are your cup of tea, I think you miss the point of motor racing.

[peckstar]

if safety is your idea of motrrsport then i think you missed the point of motorracing

anyone give me the death toll for turn 8 on the weekend?

[Armco Bender]

People climb mountains because its so safe..........yeah right.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by rockdog

I cant believe some of the things Im reading on here. Some of you dont seems to care whether a driver walks away from a crash or not. Drivers dont have a death wish. They would ALL like to be able to go home at the end of the day, not to the grave yard.
I know, cause I am one!

If that makes me weak, so be it.

If biff and barge and crashes and death are your cup of tea, I think you miss the point of motor racing.

But Rockers. you forget that a majority of the punters want to see crashes. It is like the old days of the Colisuem. I have entered demo derbys and caravan races, and the punters want to blood.

Don't believe , check Youtube, Break.com and few others to see how many times race crashes are veiwed. Unfourtunatley, the human race loves carnage. Watch the news to see highlights, and they will show crashes.

As a marshall I don't enjoy incidents either, and tracks that have blinds are dangerous, but the punters love it, until some one is seriously hurt or killed.
THen they have some remorse , but come the next event, they want another crash. Strange but true.

[STEALTHY]

Please don't confuse motor sport fans who love a big stack, with people who like seeing other people injured or killed.


Perfect example for me, being predominately red, was clipsal 08 when Courtney and Lowndes took themselves out, along with poor winterbottom. Sure, crashes are expensive for the teams, but thats part of the spectacle people enjoy.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Like rockdog, i am a racer not an armchair expert and i don't like to see any crashes and i suggest there is something really wrong with anyone who does. I like to see fast cars, driven well, not carnage!

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Like rockdog, i am a racer not an armchair expert and i don't like to see any crashes and i suggest there is something really wrong with anyone who does. I like to see fast cars, driven well, not carnage!

Hear hear!!


Mike

[GTRMagic]

Again!!

[PVDA]

Today Tonight in Adelaide ran an item asking questions about Turn 8 and Ashley Coopers death recently.

To veiw the video of the item click the link below and then scroll down the video list on the left to find it.

http://www.todaytonightadelaide.com.au/

Wonder if the TT's in the other states will pick up on it??

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by PVDA

Today Tonight in Adelaide ran an item asking questions about Turn 8 and Ashley Coopers death recently.

To veiw the video of the item click the link below and then scroll down the video list on the left to find it.

http://www.todaytonightadelaide.com.au/

Wonder if the TT's in the other states will pick up on it??

I watched it. Dunno what to say as there are multiple sides to it.

In terms of an inquiry now, I don't know what purpose further it would serve or that the time and expense would change anything. Maybe there needs to be an accounting. I have mixed feelings about it.

As a driver there is also an element of risk. Race tracks around the world are lined with concrete wall that doesn't "give". Despite efforts, which I applaud, for driver safety there is always going to be some weakness in the system however designed once you have cars going at that speed. I think it was a no brainer that there should have been SAFER barriers there. Not really impressed with the current design. Unfortunately as a driver, all it can take is a series of micro second miscalculations and you are in the wall or the trees. And sometimes it doesn't end well.

CAMS though from what I know and have seen, and this is just my opinion, I don't believe overall or to the level I expect, serves it's members well. I think it has that FIA thinking of you serve us, we don't serve you and really the whole point of CAMS is to serve it's members interests. They fail to understand without members they don't exist. As an organization, overall not impressed so far.

[PVDA]

Bump.

Thought I'd fire this thread back up in light of the the incident on Saturday and various comments that followed.

[F J Nedos]

I would still like to see the full GP circuit return. In my eyes, that's problem solved.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by F J Nedos

I would still like to see the full GP circuit return. In my eyes, that's problem solved.

SECOND!

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by PVDA

Thought I'd fire this thread back up in light of the the incident on Saturday and various comments that followed.

Anybody drops oil on a faster corner on a street circuit its gonna hurt.

Honestly we've seen worse accidents at Philip Island and Darwin so do we have to change everything?

[madman16]

There are blind crests and corners at bathurst, yet after Mark Porters death i don't recall any requests to flatten or alter that track. I for one love turn 8 as a pure balls out corner. There have been many variations which have all seen major accidents. Take the inside wall off the apex and drivers will still try and steal more "track" with the same result likely. Slow it down and drivers will still try and go as fast as possible, it's the nature of the beast

[chavez]

Originally Posted by F J Nedos

I would still like to see the full GP circuit return. In my eyes, that's problem solved.

Are you sure?

Have a look at Mark Skaife's accident from 1990 and Mika Hakkinen's accident from 1995.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by chavez

Are you sure?

Have a look at Mark Skaife's accident from 1990 and Mika Hakkinen's accident from 1995.

Mika Hakkinen hit a section of wall with '1' row of tyres. the parts either side had 3 rows of tyres. Track layout had nothing to do with the accident. With the amount of room the GP track uses, there would be sufficent space to cover it with tyres, without the risk of cars being bounced back onto the racing line (like was the issue with the first redesign of T8)


Couldn't find any footage of Skaifes 1990 crash, but at a guess, being older, the track would have had the same, or less tyre bundles there.

[dsg]

Turn 8 is fine "as is". No need to change anything. Maybe install safer barrier like NASCAR but in the long run COTF will alleviate other safety issues. In any case the safety risk is acceptable at the moment.