V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow'

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

why, i believe i asked a similar question 3-4 weeks ago asking for dyno plots, for comparison, but the naysayers keep reckoning the Toyota camp will run away with it.

my arguement to themis simple:

put up or shut up. coming from a very long time Toyota supportor

if black pearl and co want to keep up an unsubstantiated slanging match, then bully for them. but without factual back-up, they can keep their narrow-minded opinions to themselves, no???

Hey I'm not starting a slanging match, I'm simply stating from factual experience that they couldn't get parity right in the old cars.

2 makes with different engines over how long? They still couldn't get it right.

Now we have a common crap chassis, I saw the ve at Hamilton nothing lined up and a pop rivet thin steel firewall, that aside no one has tested the new gearbox or engines.

Is it also true mckenzie has left the building and the edgalls as well after inkys crap over it all.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Hey I'm not starting a slanging match, I'm simply stating from factual experience that they couldn't get parity right in the old cars.

2 makes with different engines over how long? They still couldn't get it right.

curious to know whether it was a genuine parity issue, or whether it was a blatent cheating issue, that caused any geat advantage

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Now we have a common crap chassis, I saw the ve at Hamilton nothing lined up and a pop rivet thin steel firewall, that aside no one has tested the new gearbox or engines.

Is it also true mckenzie has left the building and the edgalls as well after inkys crap over it all.

can't comment on the new MRX chassis, have not seen it in the flesh.

BUT:

most of the crap talk between NZST and NZV8 fans is similar to the trackside chat when Transam went from NZ's premier Class to Transam Lite NZv8 predecessor apart from the fact that internet forums didn't exist back then.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

curious to know whether it was a genuine parity issue, or whether it was a blatent cheating issue, that caused any geat advantage

can't comment on the new MRX chassis, have not seen it in the flesh.

BUT:

most of the crap talk between NZST and NZV8 fans is similar to the trackside chat when Transam went from NZ's premier Class to Transam Lite NZv8 predecessor apart from the fact that internet forums didn't exist back then.

It was parity, That's why everyone went ford.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

It was parity, That's why everyone went ford.

so why did they choose a Chev engine for ST? when the original upgrade was a Dart? engine based on the Ford as in Paul Manuel's Folden?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

It was parity, That's why everyone went ford.

was that due to demon tweaks that could be extracted (sometimes dubiously) from the Ford engines that couldn't be done as easily on the Holden engines??
seemed that a fair amount of technical infringements were found in the Henry's, or was that purely an engine builder issue???

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

curious to know whether it was a genuine parity issue, or whether it was a blatent cheating issue, that caused any geat advantage

can't comment on the new MRX chassis, have not seen it in the flesh.

BUT:

most of the crap talk between NZST and NZV8 fans is similar to the trackside chat when Transam went from NZ's premier Class to Transam Lite NZv8 predecessor apart from the fact that internet forums didn't exist back then.

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

was that due to demon tweaks that could be extracted (sometimes dubiously) from the Ford engines that couldn't be done as easily on the Holden engines??
seemed that a fair amount of technical infringements were found in the Henry's, or was that purely an engine builder issue???

Ford had better front end design, Holden's had more power but couldn't use it.

[Icarus_nz]

Joe, I applaud your passion and read with interest YOUR perspective as a long time supporter, possibly sometime competitor or crew.

However time has made you a little bitter hasn't it?
To use emotive terms such as ST Fanboys reduces you to lowest common denominator.

Your view of the amount of 'cheating' going on at Teir One is a bit jaundiced. In a competitive series the boundaries are always pushed and the job of the regulatory body is to keep the reins on that and keep reinforcing where the line it. If you have played with the big boys and been handed a hiding it is the refuge of the ill equipped and unprepared to tell the world everyone cheated more than you.

In his small handful posts, Pearl has conveyed that he is a competitor to respect. His posts seem a little more connected to the facts than yours. Both opinions are useful in terms of a debate.

There are a handful of posters on here with strong opinions who, unfortunatly, never take the time to clearly explain their view and what led them to that point. AS such the threads require too much filtering.

Wooley - I hope you can see that this is not an attack on a particular poster but rather a post talking about attitudes and the need for intelligent debate

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Ford had better front end design, Holden's had more power but couldn't use it.

I believe you are right. My understanding, having spoken to several competitors (and this applies to the Utes as well), is that the Ford suspension design (front and rear) is such that it just makes for a better race car. And if you really know what you're doing with set-up and drive it properly, you can just about be untouchable.

[Sidewayz]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Hey I'm not starting a slanging match, I'm simply stating from factual experience that they couldn't get parity right in the old cars.

2 makes with different engines over how long? They still couldn't get it right.

Now we have a common crap chassis, I saw the ve at Hamilton nothing lined up and a pop rivet thin steel firewall, that aside no one has tested the new gearbox or engines.

Is it also true mckenzie has left the building and the edgalls as well after inkys crap over it all.

I too saw the chassis at Hamilton, and too say it was crap, is a bit harsh. If your trying to compare it to the ST, your not comparing apples with apple. They are completely different designs with completely different price tags.
As far as parity goes, yes the old engines were way to differcult to get right, but now with electronic engine control and variable valve timing you are able to do anything you want with the engine.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by Sidewayz

now with electronic engine control and variable valve timing you are able to do anything you want with the engine.

Everything is easy until you understand the true nature of the problem

[Ugy]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

I believe you are right. My understanding, having spoken to several competitors (and this applies to the Utes as well), is that the Ford suspension design (front and rear) is such that it just makes for a better race car. And if you really know what you're doing with set-up and drive it properly, you can just about be untouchable.

Correct and thats why the VE is getting it's behind handed to it Ã*n the V8sc series. The only team that can get it working is 888 engineering hence why they were purchased and also why the ST came about. If you build all the cars the same you can't go wrong really.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by Ugy

Correct and thats why the VE is getting it's behind handed to it Ã*n the V8sc series.

Bit of speaking out your arse there Ugy.

Suspensions are the same since blueprint.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

I'm not sure if your serious, if so you have no clue.

Guys, I'm talking about vehicles raced in New Zealand (be it NZV8 or V8Utes) based on a production body.

Sorry Ugy, NOT what 888 build to race in V8SC's. That's like comparing chalk with cheese!

[Woolley]

Guys, enough of the personal insults, please. It makes the thread unpleasant and unreadable. Which is unfortunately not unusual. You may not agree with someone so fine, debate the point, but disagreement doesn't mean that they're clueless or talking out of another orifice, nor does it prove that you're not.

I'm more inclined to assume that someone who describes someone else in that way is more likely to be guilty, so don't.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Ugy

Correct and thats why the VE is getting it's behind handed to it Ã*n the V8sc series. The only team that can get it working is 888 engineering hence why they were purchased and also why the ST came about. If you build all the cars the same you can't go wrong really.

Ok I will try this again, you realize about project blueprint which made all the suspension the same in v8sc right?

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Guys, I'm talking about vehicles raced in New Zealand (be it NZV8 or V8Utes) based on a production body.

Sorry Ugy, NOT what 888 build to race in V8SC's. That's like comparing chalk with cheese!

As am I.

[Ugy]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Ok I will try this again, you realize about project blueprint which made all the suspension the same in v8sc right?

Had an idea there would be something like that in place but have been guilty before of putting my fingers into gear before my brain, but hey i'm learning.
It just seems the VE has some sort of problem compared to previous models.

[Sidewayz]

Originally Posted by Ugy

Had an idea there would be something like that in place but have been guilty before of putting my fingers into gear before my brain, but hey i'm learning.
It just seems the VE has some sort of problem compared to previous models.

I'm lost as to this problem with the VE your referring to. Some stats i was reading, says that since its debut in 2006 the VE has had 86 race wins, more than any other Holden model.

[Ugy]

Being the longest running model could have something to do with the number of wins.
Anyway this is the ST site and i think i better put it to rest before i'm told of.

[Intrepid]

New updates from M2 Motorsport...who will partner Simon in the Endurance event?

And on a side note, seems the PWR and V8ST radiator units worked fine at HD? Anyone hear of any heat issues?

[Intrepid]

Ok, my uselesness means Im obiously not sure of how to post images!

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Intrepid

New updates from M2 Motorsport...who will partner Simon in the Endurance event?

i will put a quiet $50 on craig innes who is his good mate and on the V8ST drivers list...a couple of journey men who will keep out of trouble and pick up places as others fall by the wayside......

[Biggy G]

Originally Posted by Intrepid

New updates from M2 Motorsport...who will partner Simon in the Endurance event?

And on a side note, seems the PWR and V8ST radiator units worked fine at HD? Anyone hear of any heat issues?

From what I heard, because RPM limit was dropped no one had any heat issues. Now just to sort those pesky gear boxes, again, some teams having no probs, others heaps. Aparantly the calibration has a lot to do with it, gotta be spot on, if it's not, look out.

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Biggy G

From what I heard, because RPM limit was dropped no one had any heat issues. Now just to sort those pesky gear boxes, again, some teams having no probs, others heaps. Aparantly the calibration has a lot to do with it, gotta be spot on, if it's not, look out.

my understanding is that hollingers will appear for the enduro's..some teams have told V8St that issue needs fixing NOW and they will be fitting these units for taupo...... i know of one teams thats intends to test said units shortly....so i am told

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Intrepid

New updates from M2 Motorsport...who will partner Simon in the Endurance event?

And on a side note, seems the PWR and V8ST radiator units worked fine at HD? Anyone hear of any heat issues?

Mpc were the only ones to test a new radiator set up, they claim it was a success but it was that cold at hamptons I think it was A premature statement.