[Driver] Vettel vs Webber: Round 2

[E.B]

Mark Webber is really giving me the irrits with his continuous whingeing about this business.

He is going on like a broken record. Over nothing. Of course Marko is going to favour Vettel.... He has known him for years from his running of the Red Bull Juniors of which Vettel was part of, and obviously the one jewel in the crown that the Juniors have produced. As Mark admits it is an emotional favouritism, not a technical one. Mark also admits that it is human nature and that he has favourites as we all do.

And as for his latest comments of "I think I wasn't supposed to be in the hunt, at all," adding, "So it's been maybe quite inconvenient, but I've enjoyed every bit of it." is clearly a bit antagonistic and implies he is happy that he has become shall we say difficult over things.

Mark seems to overlook the fact that although he has had unreliability problems at times his have never manifested themselves in the races, only in practice. I dread to think what accusations he would be making had he been the one suffering from car issues as Seb has in the races. Mark seems to have overlooked the fact that if Seb had enjoyed the same reliability as Mark then in fact Mark would be not even in contention for the WDC and would be some 40 or 50 points behind Seb, who has had two mechanical failures whilst leading close to the end of races.

Interestingly it is now being reported that Horner and Webber were overheard and seen in an "animated conversation" behind the Red Bull motorhome last night,
which suggests to me that Horner has had enough of his whingeing.

As for the reported comments from last year of Mark saying he would have helped Button rather than help Vettel win the 2009 WDC I think that is a disgrace.

Mark has never been a team player but that is ridiculous. If he has a point to make he should just STFU and make it on the track. If he can.

Perhaps he is just jealous of Seb? He should be happy with the opportunity Red Bull have given him, and the fact he is being paid an awful lot more than Vettel is.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I also didn't realise that Mark publicly stated last season, at Brazil that he hoped Jenson would win the title and not Seb. I'm certainly hoping that Seb feels the same and favours Fernando over Mark if it comes to it that Seb can't take the title.

Well who cares? I mean, Mark and Jenson seem to get on. Why hope Seb won it if they don't like each other?

[Ralf's Girl]

Because it seems like a deliberate attempt to antagonise and cause a totally unnecessary and avoidable conflict within his own team?

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

Because it seems like a deliberate attempt to antagonise and cause a totally unnecessary and avoidable conflict within his own team?

Exactly, thank you.

[Knowlesy]

I think the fact that little was made of it at the time tells you how antagonising it was.

Mark is a bit of an old woman at times, but that was probably just a straightforward answer to a rather banal question. In fact, even taking away inter-team squabbles, I would be surprised if any driver wants their teammate to win the title.

[Born Racer]

Is it that surprising that Webber would rather anyone but his team-mate wins? I have no doubts Vettel does not want Webber to win if he cannot. Likewise, if it wasn't going to be him in 2007, I would not imagine Alonso was too disappoiinted to see Raikkonen win.

Perhaps Webber is annoyed team orders won't necessarily be used at this stage of the season given Ferrari are using them.

[Knowlesy]

Oh Alonso in 2007 took it to a degree way beyond Webbers supposed indiscretion.

[jab]

Given the rumours circulating this weekend in the Interlagos paddock, there may be more to Mark's comments that simply airing frustrations about this year...

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Perhaps Webber is annoyed team orders won't necessarily be used at this stage of the season given Ferrari are using them.

Perhaps???

[ralf fan]

So practice. Vettel literally owned Webber.

[Adam43]

Managing to close that gap in p2 showed true grit.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I think the fact that little was made of it at the time tells you how antagonising it was.

Mark is a bit of an old woman at times, but that was probably just a straightforward answer to a rather banal question. In fact, even taking away inter-team squabbles, I would be surprised if any driver wants their teammate to win the title.

I agree, no driver wants his team mate to win, but, Mark would like Seb to help him out this year, this comes after last year stating that he wouldn't like to see the same person he'd now help him win the title. If i was Seb i know that i wouldn't be too keen!

[Knowlesy]

Well yeah but Mark would have helped the team if asked I am sure, regardless of whether he wanted Vettel to win. And it will be the other way round now, presumably.

[E.B]

If the revelations of Mark having stated last year that he would have rather helped Button to win the WDC than his teamate Vettel, I await Vettel to put his two cents worth in and say how he would help Alonso rather than Webber....

Second thoughts, Seb is a bit less of a sulk ...... more adult and mature than that. He will sweep it under the carpet and continue his recent form to show Mark really is just a #2......



Extraordinary.


What say you Ted.....?

[KateM]

Originally Posted by E.B

If the revelations of Mark having stated last year that he would have rather helped Button to win the WDC than his teamate Vettel, I await Vettel to put his two cents worth in and say how he would help Alonso rather than Webber....

Second thoughts, Seb is a bit less of a sulk ...... more adult and mature than that. He will sweep it under the carpet and continue his recent form to show Mark really is just a #2......



Extraordinary.


What say you Ted.....?

If you are referring to what Crofty and Ant read out in practice today, I'm 99.9% sure that he didn't actually say that. Considering the only source we've ever seen/heard for it is that random e-mail from a person who didn't seem to like Webber very much.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Well yeah but Mark would have helped the team if asked I am sure, regardless of whether he wanted Vettel to win. And it will be the other way round now, presumably.

Seb has said, apparently, that he will do whatevers needed to help the team out.

(i am wondering if team and Mark equal the same thing? )

[Jaguarman1]

I don't think there is a single driver in this years championship that would gladly help their team mate win the title. They are racers first and foremost and lesson #1 is beat your team mate.
Every single one of the protagonists have had toy throwing moments this season simply because the prize is too great to consider losing.

In 40 years of watching F1, I think the grace and etiquette between drivers left the sport in the late 80s and has decreased ever since. You simply wouldn't have seen any of this rubbish between the likes of Alan Jones, Keke Rosberg, Gilles Villeneuve, Rene Arnoux etc.... because they were racers of a different ilk.

I think the whole lot of them need their heads banging together and being told to just shut up and race. However, RBR in particular seem to be talking themslves out of the whole lot while Ferrari and McLaren quietly observe.

[phoenix]

Having read this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/9161758.stm

it doesn't seem to me that Webber came out with anything particularly new during Thursday's press conference. It seems he was asked several times in different ways about the position at Red Bull towards him as the leading RBR driver in the championship and he avoided answering pretty much all the questions directly - diplomatically one might say. One journalist slipped in a question which he answered in a way that revealed what we all know already from Horner et al - Vettel and he are on 'equal' footing technically at Red Bull in terms of equipment and that the teams future is based around the younger driver on the team.

He never used the word 'emotionally' - a questioning journalist did. This is how bad press and rumours get amplified and poor old Mark gets slammed for words/phrases a journalist used.

I hope Mark can get it together this weekend and prove he is worthy as a race winner and potential championship winner. If he can't do that on track on his own then I would hate it for Vettel to be told to move over just as much as I really don't like the fact that Alonso is where he is in terms of championship points because seven of them he didn't earn - he was gifted them by his team mate.

[Jaguarman1]

I agree completely Phoenix and I hope Webber does the job out there too. I've always like him and followed his fortunes since the Mercedes mess at LeMans - we were there and you had to feel for the guy.
As a long term Ferrari fan, while I agree with the sentiments towards Alonso's seven points, I think we all know orders exist: ie Lewis at Turkey "If I slow down, will Jenson attack?".... "No" from the pit wall.
I personally have no problem with team orders, I'd just rather not have any team try to hide it as I think most F1 fans are more intelligent than some media give credit for and whilst we may not agree sometimes, we can at least understand why a team does it if it were publicly announced. All this "fuel save" and coded rubbish just insults us.

[Lancsbreaker]

It may be just journalese, but the Times today reports that when Vettel was asked "whether he would aid Webber's quest for the Championship" the reply was "If he wants assistance, he should try the medical car".......

Not sure if I want the quote to be true or not........It was a funny crack if he did say it...so long as he didn't mean it

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Is it that surprising that Webber would rather anyone but his team-mate wins? I have no doubts Vettel does not want Webber to win if he cannot. Likewise, if it wasn't going to be him in 2007, I would not imagine Alonso was too disappoiinted to see Raikkonen win.

Perhaps Webber is annoyed team orders won't necessarily be used at this stage of the season given Ferrari are using them.

Webber sometimes acts like a sore loser.

He should either keep his trap shut or choose his words more carefully. He is doing himself absolutely no favours with those words... he's opening himself up to needless criticism given some of his incidents this season and the contact with Vettel at Turkey is also quite vivid. If Vettel ends up losing the championship by 1 point, Webber doesn't need to be seen as the villain who denied his teammate the ch/ship.

Just get on with it, Mark!

[Super Hans]

If Webber has said this then I applaud his honesty. All drivers want to finish above their team-mate in the standings, particularly if they don't get on well, and this is just the natural extension of that. Does anybody honestly believe that Michael Schumacher wanted Eddie Irvine to win the title in 1999?

Battle joined.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

If Webber has said this then I applaud his honesty. All drivers want to finish above their team-mate in the standings, particularly if they don't get on well, and this is just the natural extension of that. Does anybody honestly believe that Michael Schumacher wanted Eddie Irvine to win the title in 1999?

Battle joined.

Yes but we always hear about Webber 'complaining' about Vettel. I'm not exactly understanding why it is necessary. It's not like Vettel publicly complains about Webber,.. And even if they are team mates, it's stating the bleeding obvious that your first priority is to beat your team mate.

On the other hand, Massa is quite prepared to support Alonso for the title... not that Massa is in a similar position to Webber in the title race.

Webber's comments appear to be distractions he doesn't need. He needs to concentrate on winning the title and not focus on his team mate so much as Vettel is behind Mark in the standings. That's the difference.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

If Webber has said this then I applaud his honesty. All drivers want to finish above their team-mate in the standings, particularly if they don't get on well, and this is just the natural extension of that.

They did get on, but Keke and Alain in 1986.
Team mates don't have to be idiots.

Does anybody honestly believe that Michael Schumacher wanted Eddie Irvine to win the title in 1999?

No, but Malaysia was amazing considering he didn't want it.

[jab]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Does anybody honestly believe that Michael Schumacher wanted Eddie Irvine to win the title in 1999?

Neither did Ferrari as a whole. Which is an interesting parallel to this year...

And all this nonsense about Webber "complaining" about Vettel - where? I've never seen him actually complaining about him. All this is just journalists creating exciting headlines from nothing, and then people only reading those headlines and not what was actually said

Mark has been very dignified all year. He hasn't said a bad word about the team. In fact, he defended the team's favouritism this week and said it wasn't an issue. But the journos decided to twist that into "Webber whinges about the team", which was nothing like what he said